Seeing Babies as Confident Capable Learners: How To Champion The Youngest Children In Your Nursery
“They amaze me every single day… They set themselves challenges, find solutions, and they are these mini scientists roving around our environment.”
– Laura, Nursery Manager
In this episode of Atelier Talks, we’re showing you what life at Atelier looks like through the eyes of our youngest children, our babies. As more children enter nursery at an earlier age and for longer hours, it's more important than ever that as nursery leaders and educators we create truly thoughtful, respectful and responsive environments for babies to thrive.
From baby brain development and physical environments to rich interactions and the role of the key person, we explore how to support confident, capable learning right from the start. You’ll hear real examples of daily practice, challenges we’ve navigated, and the non-negotiables that make our baby provision at Atelier second to none.
In this episode:
- Why babies are not passive observers and how to recognise them as researchers
- The science behind baby brain development
- Designing calming, stimulating, responsive baby environments (without overstimulation!)
- What heuristic play and treasure baskets look like in a mixed-age setting
- How to build slow, nurturing routines that honour each child’s needs and rhythm
- The role of the key person in building deep trust and emotional safety for babies
- How to support your team to value and advocate for babies as communicators and learners
- Why “just sit and love your baby” is not only okay, it’s essential
Standing on the shoulders of giants
The magic of Atelier draws on foundational thinking from a range of influential Early Years theorists and educators. If you’d like to find out more about the voices that shape our deeply relational, child-centred practice here at Atelier, those mentioned in today’s episode are as follows:
- Elinor Goldschmied – for her work on treasure baskets, heuristic play and “islands of intimacy”
- Peter Elfer – for the Key Person approach and emotionally responsive care
- Jools Page – for the concept of Professional Love and her research into emotional attachment
- John Bowlby – for foundational attachment theory that supports our relational approach
- Anne Langston & Lesley Abbott – for raising the status of baby practitioners and promoting child rights
- Loris Malaguzzi & Reggio Children – for inspiring our view of babies as capable learners and researchers
- Sonia Jackson – for advocating for children’s rights in Early Years care and education
Find out more:
Website and newsletter: ateliernursery.co.uk
Instagram: @ateliernurseryltd
Consultancy enquiries: Contact us via our website
Together, we’ll unlock the potential for incredible growth and learning.
Atelier Talks is a Decibelle Creative original podcast decibellecreative.com / @decibelle_creative
Keywords: babies in nursery, early years baby provision, key person approach, heuristic play, treasure baskets, attachment in babies, professional love, baby room design, first 1001 days, baby brain development, slowing down in EYFS, respectful caregiving, early years consultant UK, Reggio for babies
Transcript
>> Clare: Welcome to Atelier Talks, the Early Years
Speaker:Collective.
Speaker:This is the podcast brought to you by the Atelier Nursery
Speaker:team, exploring the art and science of early years education.
Speaker:We're here to share knowledge and insights from our unique
Speaker:research led approach. So if you're passionate about
Speaker:early years education, you're in the right place.
Speaker:Let's find out what's in store for you on today's
Speaker:episode.
Speaker:Welcome and thank you for joining us on this episode of
Speaker:Atelier Talks, the Early Years Collective, where we'll be
Speaker:discussing all things early years. Today's
Speaker:focus is thinking about some of our youngest children within our
Speaker:nursery, our babies. So it's that time of
Speaker:year where we've had a high number of younger children starting,
Speaker:so we really wanted to take the time and the opportunity to break that
Speaker:down, have a look about the needs of those youngest children and
Speaker:how we're supporting them and hopefully some inspiration
Speaker:into what can be one of the busiest times of the
Speaker:year. So today I'm joined by the lovely
Speaker:Lauren, Lucy and, Laura.
Speaker:>> Lauren: Hello, everybody.
Speaker:>> Laura: Hello. Hello.
Speaker:>> Clare: So, Laura, I know this for you is one of
Speaker:your absolute special, special areas
Speaker:in terms of making sure that your nursery runs really,
Speaker:really smoothly. But I think our babies has
Speaker:to be held over to Lauren today. So Lauren, when
Speaker:you're working, you're const
Speaker:thinking about the research, you're constantly thinking about
Speaker:the academic studies that are coming through, you're
Speaker:constantly looking about what we're doing in
Speaker:practise and how the theory is supporting and underpinning
Speaker:that. So I know you've been working really hard, in
Speaker:developing some of our short courses that are looking at those first
Speaker:1001 days. So talk us through why you
Speaker:are so passionate about our youngest children
Speaker:and their development.
Speaker:>> Lauren: I think babies are fascinating and I
Speaker:think they are incredible. And I
Speaker:am so often surprised
Speaker:by the fact that people discredit babies.
Speaker:They don't think that they're important, they don't think
Speaker:they contribute to society, they don't, they just think
Speaker:that they're not capable of anything. And
Speaker:from working with, having my own babies and working with
Speaker:babies, I think they're the most skilled learners.
Speaker:And I think that's where my passion and drive comes
Speaker:from. Because they need advocates,
Speaker:they need people to voice their needs
Speaker:and, shout from the rooftops how amazing they are.
Speaker:And the research just so clear that
Speaker:the early years are so impactful. In the later years, there is
Speaker:no point investing thousands of pounds and
Speaker:time and money and resources in children once they
Speaker:get to the age of five, if you haven't done anything from
Speaker:day one. So, yes, I'm extremely
Speaker:invested in quality education for babies.
Speaker:>> Clare: I just think you summarise it so beautifully,
Speaker:Lauren. When we think about the importance of our
Speaker:babies and actually when there is so much
Speaker:learning taking place for them, but also,
Speaker:you know, how vulnerable they are, how
Speaker:curious, how capable, how,
Speaker:autonomous they can be from just those really,
Speaker:really early first days and how, actually,
Speaker:we need a team of early years educators who
Speaker:recognise that and who respond to that. And I think that's
Speaker:where we. I just. I don't. I don't know about you, but I just feel so privileged that
Speaker:we've got the role to almost
Speaker:guide and coach and support and
Speaker:inspire our staff team to do
Speaker:exactly what you've just said, recognise the value
Speaker:that all of our babies have and bring. So,
Speaker:Laura, you've had a bit of. A. Bit of a difficult couple of months,
Speaker:really, but also a massively enjoyable couple of months
Speaker:because you've been at, the absolute coal face in
Speaker:terms of settle. And all of our new babies, say
Speaker:25 new babies have started Atelier and Chippenham,
Speaker:and, We've had about 30 new starters in our nursery in Bath.
Speaker:so really thinking about what those babies have needed,
Speaker:the interactions that they have deserved, the
Speaker:attachment that they're starting to build. So talk us through.
Speaker:What do babies look like for you at Tippetham?
Speaker:>> Laura: So I'm a bit like Lauren. I just love our babies. And
Speaker:I used to work, within our explorer space, which is where a lot of our
Speaker:babies are based. And it was just mind
Speaker:blowing sometimes to watch them and see how capable they were.
Speaker:So I think one of the real big kind of
Speaker:principles that we have at Atelier is that our babies are infinitely
Speaker:capable and actually it's not, for us
Speaker:to decide what they can and can't do or what they should or shouldn't be doing.
Speaker:And actually, if you allow them to interact in a
Speaker:really safe but stimulating environment,
Speaker:what they can achieve is just sometimes beyond what you
Speaker:would ever imagine. I think as well with us, it's really
Speaker:important that there's responsive caregiving within our baby
Speaker:spaces so that our key people are so in tune
Speaker:with those babies, their rhythms, their routines, knowing when
Speaker:they might need their bottle or knowing if
Speaker:they've woken up an hour too early in the morning, they might need to go to bed
Speaker:a little bit earlier, in the day. So it's those
Speaker:relationships that responsive caregiving, the
Speaker:relationships and attachment within those spaces is always really
Speaker:beautiful. To witness. I think as well it's the
Speaker:importance of play for the babies as well. Because even though
Speaker:we talk about play for our older children,
Speaker:sometimes you just see people think that babies just sort of
Speaker:sit and watch. But actually they are so deeply involved
Speaker:in their own play as well. So lots of heuristic play,
Speaker:treasure baskets, sensory play, immersive play,
Speaker:providing lots of curiosity for them as well, lots of learning
Speaker:opportunities. and I think one of the trickiest things is
Speaker:trying to have a really stimulating environment for them. But that's also
Speaker:quite calming. so it's not
Speaker:overwhelming, it's not sort of stimulating to
Speaker:a point where they're overstimulated. but there's enough challenge,
Speaker:there's enough risk, there's enough excitement
Speaker:that they actually feel constantly
Speaker:challenged. There's new things to explore. so there's so
Speaker:much I think to think about when you're working with babies and so much
Speaker:to. For the staff as well, working with the babies to
Speaker:kind of be, be thinking about as well.
Speaker:>> Clare: It's really interesting because that was one of the things I really wanted us to kind
Speaker:of talk about was how does that physical design. Because there's
Speaker:been so much work recently from, you know, coming out
Speaker:from Mainef, coming out from community playthings, coming out
Speaker:from the stronger practise hubs, you know, about those
Speaker:babies and the need for high quality
Speaker:interaction. So we know that, as Lauren was saying, all of the
Speaker:research is pointing towards the need to have
Speaker:much higher level care for our babies. And what does that
Speaker:really look like and how do we kind of design
Speaker:our baby rooms at atelier to reflect those needs?
Speaker:Because we are, we're not a normal nursery
Speaker:in terms of typical design or typical pedagogy, typical
Speaker:philosophy. So our babies are exposed
Speaker:all day, every day to all of our other children at the same
Speaker:time. So for us we have to think really carefully about
Speaker:the design of our rooms, the design of our spaces. So
Speaker:these babies can still have that, that feel of
Speaker:being rested and protected. They can still
Speaker:have those beautiful opportunities for the
Speaker:provocations and, and the play that you talked about,
Speaker:but also to feel safe and
Speaker:to be heard and to not be
Speaker:overstimulated or overwhelmed. So when we're thinking about
Speaker:the physical design of our baby room, how
Speaker:do you begin that at this point in the term?
Speaker:>> Laura: So for our ah, baby spaces, one
Speaker:of the really important things is, and we've said this in many
Speaker:episodes before, is to be at the level of the child to be at that
Speaker:baby's level. So what does it feel like if you are
Speaker:a baby that's just started to crawl, or actually you haven't learned to
Speaker:call yet, and you're just sitting upright? What's at your eye level,
Speaker:what's at your fingertips? What can you feel? it
Speaker:also needs to be a space that's not overly resourced, so you're
Speaker:not. There's not things that are trying to grab your attention and you're
Speaker:not overwhelmed by the. The selection on offer. Ah. there
Speaker:needs to be things that. Within your reach. There needs to be things that
Speaker:are different material. So with our treasure baskets,
Speaker:we always talk about having things that are made of metal. Some things
Speaker:are wooden, some things are fabric, some things
Speaker:are, natural. So you've got pine cones and shells. Then
Speaker:you've also got things that might make a noise. so you're really
Speaker:kind of trying to using things that address all of the
Speaker:senses. So you've got things that make noises, things that they can touch, things
Speaker:that they can mouth safely. In our nest space in
Speaker:Chippenham, we are lucky that we've got a space that's sort
Speaker:of a little bit away from the. The other
Speaker:children. So it's a little bit quieter. There's more natural lighting.
Speaker:So again, it's that reduction of stimulation.
Speaker:So really those babies can really kind of get into that zone
Speaker:of that focus and really, concentrate on
Speaker:that play rather than being kind of
Speaker:distracted by what's happening around them. And I think as well,
Speaker:one of the biggest, and probably for me, the most
Speaker:important part of that baby space is the furniture. The resources have
Speaker:to be safe. because if we're seeing them as infinitely capable
Speaker:and allowing them to take risks, we need to ensure that
Speaker:that physical environment is safe for them to do so. So lots of soft
Speaker:furnishings, all of the furniture is at
Speaker:their level that they can either cruise along or at, a level
Speaker:that they can then reach over and get into, to pull things out for
Speaker:themselves. And I think as well, just the emotional environment in
Speaker:terms of really responsive adults in that space.
Speaker:But also I think it's at that age, it's all about
Speaker:the. The back and forth, those me to you interactions,
Speaker:where you've got the smiling and the laughing and the peekaboos and
Speaker:the where have you gone? And then finding them behind a bit of
Speaker:coloured glass. And actually, what does
Speaker:that emotional and that relationship environment feel like
Speaker:just as much as the physical environment? Does that
Speaker:make sense?
Speaker:>> Clare: It absolutely does. And I think, you know, one of the projects that
Speaker:Lucy and I are working on at the moment is with, a really, really
Speaker:lovely setting, high number of settings within their group
Speaker:and actually really looking at that quality of
Speaker:baby interaction and baby play. So Lucy, when just
Speaker:build on what Laura was talking to you about, that we're going to hold that back and
Speaker:forth for a minute and look at those interactions in a moment. But
Speaker:thinking about that physical design of a baby room,
Speaker:you know, we were really lucky and very privileged to be
Speaker:visited by that satting. And you know, he came across to us
Speaker:and had a look at all of the environments set up and
Speaker:ready. So when you worked with that,
Speaker:setting, what was the kind of the key takeaways? What was their,
Speaker:you know, absolute wow
Speaker:moments, I guess, for what was, you know, what they've now
Speaker:gone on to create within their own learning environments.
Speaker:>> Lucy: I think it's for them to see all the
Speaker:opportunities we have on offer for our
Speaker:babies, but also the same opportunities
Speaker:for our toddlers and our preschoolers. So our babies
Speaker:can immerse themselves in the clay, they can play with the
Speaker:pottery wheel and they are making the
Speaker:bread, they're sewing on the sewing machine.
Speaker:I think they, our babies
Speaker:can join in all of the opportunities that
Speaker:all our other children get to access. So I think
Speaker:it's just thinking about they are
Speaker:also our confident, capable learners and
Speaker:they should also get to have those experiences as well.
Speaker:So I think it's just inspiring the
Speaker:nursery and inspiring those practitioners as
Speaker:to what we do and what our babies
Speaker:can be capable of doing.
Speaker:>> Clare: Absolutely. I think it is, isn't it? You know, you can think about the
Speaker:physicality of that environment. So you can think about the soft spaces,
Speaker:you can think about the opportunities for rest, the opportunities for
Speaker:play. I love what you said, Laura, about that absolute
Speaker:sensory immersion. So one of the things we did with
Speaker:them when they came loose was it was to just think about the things to consider.
Speaker:So actually when you're looking at the sand,
Speaker:the things to consider, you know, how are you actually
Speaker:promoting schematic play? How are you promoting
Speaker:opportunity for sensory, play? How are you actually
Speaker:adding other resource to the play to promote different
Speaker:opportunities that will come through from it? And then always
Speaker:about that language, isn't it? How are we then promoting as
Speaker:practitioners that language? Because I think that serve and return,
Speaker:that back and forth that you were talking about, Laura, is,
Speaker:you know, is exactly what we, we know. And
Speaker:it's exactly what we know babies need in
Speaker:terms of being able to
Speaker:participate within a conversation Being able to be
Speaker:supported, to, move forward within their learning,
Speaker:but also just to be completely and
Speaker:utterly engaged and immersed and know that
Speaker:that's okay. So whether that's, you know, a raise of the
Speaker:eyebrows and a smile, because actually you've got that awe and that
Speaker:wonder for that baby as they're researching and
Speaker:actually seeing our children as researchers, you know, they are
Speaker:so competent and able and I think it is
Speaker:holding for us, isn't it, as a leadership team, that,
Speaker:awareness for our staff team, that they can hold those high
Speaker:expectations for our babies too, and that our
Speaker:babies are so valued within our
Speaker:setting and really are seen as those competent
Speaker:learners that actually we do have one year olds that can use a sewing
Speaker:machine and we do have one year olds that, you know, can go onto the
Speaker:potter's wheel and how they access that and how they're
Speaker:developing their understanding and and their skill and their knowledge
Speaker:base around the use of the sewing machine, of course it's going to be different to
Speaker:how our three year olds do, but that actually we still believe that
Speaker:they have a right and that they have the
Speaker:autonomy to make that choice, to be a mass within, some
Speaker:of the bigger opportunities as well as actually some of those
Speaker:really, you know, for what we would call some of those,
Speaker:continuous provision opportunities. So, you know, if it's the
Speaker:sensory diary, if it's the sand, if it's the water, if it's the
Speaker:malleable play, if it's the schematic play, if
Speaker:it's the stories, if it's the songs, if it's the rhymes,
Speaker:because actually that's how we want all of our children to be
Speaker:learning. So Lauren, within your role as kind of quality
Speaker:practise lead, you've got such beautiful role because
Speaker:you're the person that's kind of behind the scenes and supporting
Speaker:Lauren, facilitating that environment, have you got any
Speaker:of those kind of really special
Speaker:resources or special things that you feel should be present
Speaker:in every single one of those baby rooms?
Speaker:>> Lauren: Yes. So I think in terms of
Speaker:looking at the physical resources in the physical
Speaker:environment, it's thinking about
Speaker:quality and like Laura said, about the safety
Speaker:of those resources and investing in high quality,
Speaker:real, authentic resources for those babies. So my
Speaker:vision is for our babies to be exposed to the real
Speaker:world and not to be in a bubble
Speaker:of their baby nest or their baby space which
Speaker:has impressions of different things that
Speaker:exist in the real world. So from
Speaker:having real shells or real, wooden
Speaker:blocks, I want them to have an authentic experience.
Speaker:So for me it's looking at authenticity and quality
Speaker:and not thinking about replicas of things.
Speaker:So we don't have replicas of phones,
Speaker:we have real phones because children need to feel the
Speaker:weight of a real phone and they
Speaker:will see straight through it. I remember at home
Speaker:my partner bought my child a
Speaker:pretend remote for the TV because he didn't like
Speaker:the fact she kept monopolising the remote. She saw
Speaker:straight to it. She knew it was a replica, didn't have any
Speaker:interest in it at all. So the respect that we have for our babies
Speaker:is that they have authentic resources.
Speaker:>> Clare: And I think you know, for us it's when we, you know, this time in the
Speaker:year when we've got all these new children starting with us is really thinking
Speaker:about the physicality of the environment as well as those m, you know,
Speaker:the really rich emotional resource that our key people bring. So
Speaker:actually is it a time when we're replacing the
Speaker:metallics, Is it a time when we're replacing, replacing the treasure
Speaker:baskets? Is it a time when we're really looking at the heuristic
Speaker:play and how that's offered and the opportunities that that brings?
Speaker:So Lizzie, it's one of your favourite times of year is resource shopping.
Speaker:So have you got anything to add on to Lauren's you know,
Speaker:authentic resources that you feel should be so importantly
Speaker:present?
Speaker:>> Lucy: I think the treasure basket is probably
Speaker:one of my lovely resources for our babies.
Speaker:and again it's filling it lots with those real
Speaker:resources and really good for the sensory experience
Speaker:for our babies. Things they can touch, things can
Speaker:feel, things they can smell. and also
Speaker:it's thing within the treasure basket there'll
Speaker:be items from home as well. So you'll have a whisk in
Speaker:there, you'll have brushes. I think for our
Speaker:babies it's quite nice familiarity of having those things
Speaker:at home that they probably play with and explore with
Speaker:and then have that at nursery as well. And I think with our
Speaker:free flow and our mixed age it's lovely to see the
Speaker:learning that takes place with the treasure basket with
Speaker:our babies, our non mobile babies or our
Speaker:little crawlers sat next to it and even our toddlers and
Speaker:to our preschools that enjoy the treasure basket
Speaker:as well, to see the learning that takes place from all the
Speaker:mixed ages.
Speaker:>> Clare: So Laura, when you're thinking about all of them rich
Speaker:opportunities that Lauren and Lucy kind of
Speaker:promote with your staff team via their staff development and via the
Speaker:resource kind of purchasing, what about
Speaker:those kind of interactions? So the
Speaker:importance of how our interactions alongside those
Speaker:Resources together. So could you explain
Speaker:for our listeners, you know, the importance of those early
Speaker:interactions and how we're actually shaping that
Speaker:child's future in terms of their learning that's available to
Speaker:them?
Speaker:>> Laura: Absolutely. So within that first year of a child's
Speaker:life, we know that their brain is so pliable and there's
Speaker:so much growth happening with neurons. and actually
Speaker:you know, a smile, a raised eyebrow, those
Speaker:as you said, the seven return reactions do so much to strengthen
Speaker:and grow those new ones and create these neural pathways that lead to these
Speaker:children then having really positive relationships, really
Speaker:positive associations with emotions and
Speaker:understanding to understand, you know, facial expressions and
Speaker:tone of voice and questions and intonation.
Speaker:So I just find it magic to sit and play
Speaker:peekaboo with a baby or to, to sit and
Speaker:you know, maybe lay on the floor next to them as they're picking
Speaker:something out of the treasure basket into mirror their, their
Speaker:facial expressions or to maybe make a little bit of a
Speaker:gasp or raise your eyebrows or say oh my goodness,
Speaker:what's that? And for them then to return that
Speaker:that expression or to see that you're really deeply engaged with
Speaker:them, it gives them such a sense of like validity
Speaker:that they're being heard, they're being spoken to, they're being
Speaker:supported in their discovery. but it also gives them
Speaker:a sense, I think of
Speaker:that shared moment and then I think from
Speaker:sharing those moments with adults, that then leads them to sharing those
Speaker:moments with peers which then leads to them being able
Speaker:to then have peer on peer relationships as they grow.
Speaker:but actually the interactions are just so crucial to introducing new
Speaker:language, to new new ways of thinking,
Speaker:new facial expressions. and just for them
Speaker:to also build that, that sense of attachment,
Speaker:that sense of safety, of security, of knowing
Speaker:that someone's on my level, someone's next to me, someone is
Speaker:mirroring what I'm doing or is really respectful of the space
Speaker:that I'm in right now. I think they're just so.
Speaker:Interactions just so crucial, aren't they, in everything that we do.
Speaker:and starting it from birth and from those really early days
Speaker:of a child being here. They are
Speaker:invaluable in terms of making sure that that child
Speaker:is developing and supported I
Speaker:suppose.
Speaker:>> Clare: So I think you're answering right. It's that absolute
Speaker:genuine, trusting, positive,
Speaker:responsive interaction, isn't it, that you know, our
Speaker:very youngest of children are really needing as they
Speaker:develop a sense of belonging in our nurseries, but also as
Speaker:they're building in their key relationships with their key
Speaker:person. You know, they're all of a sudden developing new
Speaker:relationships outside of their family home. So we're looking at that
Speaker:real significant other and what that really looks like for our
Speaker:children.
Speaker:So I know in, previous episodes and earlier episodes,
Speaker:we will have talked about the role of the key person, but I think it's
Speaker:really, really significant that we revisit that. Because
Speaker:when we're talking about our youngest of children, you know,
Speaker:the intimacy of care that takes place, but
Speaker:also the responsiveness of when, you know,
Speaker:those interactions are needing to happen so, so
Speaker:readily because those children are so
Speaker:reliant on us, aren't they, as educators and caregivers.
Speaker:So in your experience, Laurie, you know, what would, you know,
Speaker:talk me through? What does the role of that cue person really
Speaker:look like for our very youngest of children, our babies?
Speaker:>> Laura: So I think was it isn't Edna Goldschmye, who has a
Speaker:lovely quote about the islands of intimacy and about those moments of
Speaker:just, just being with that baby. And I
Speaker:think when. When I was a key person as well, because I,
Speaker:I had quite a few young babies join me when I was
Speaker:in that key person role, the whole sort of
Speaker:month or so of that child being there was just about building
Speaker:that physical, emotional,
Speaker:visual connection with the baby. So it was playing those
Speaker:peekaboo games, it was having those snuggles. It was,
Speaker:making eye contact as you're feeding them their bottles. It was. Was singing
Speaker:to them and, playing games with them as you change their nappy.
Speaker:and then slowly they, they have that sense of
Speaker:trust. They have that sense of safety, that sense that I'm,
Speaker:I'm nurtured, I'm loved here. And then they start to,
Speaker:slowly, I suppose, move away from you a little bit as
Speaker:they know that you're that secure base that actually if
Speaker:I do, get a little bit scared or I fall over or I hurt
Speaker:myself or something makes me jump, I know you're right behind me,
Speaker:that I can call back to, to you and you can. You'll give me a cuddle straight away.
Speaker:So I think it's that. That inbuilt trust that they have in you,
Speaker:that you'll always be there for them or that if anything happens, you
Speaker:are. They can return to you for that, that nurture and that love.
Speaker:and I think it's the biggest compliment as a key person when you just don't see your,
Speaker:your baby anymore because they're just off. And that sense
Speaker:of security and safety and confidence that they
Speaker:have because they know you're there for them if. If they need
Speaker:you. is the biggest. The biggest
Speaker:compliment and privilege because actually you've nurtured them and grown
Speaker:them to the point where they feel that they can
Speaker:achieve so much by being away from you. So I think
Speaker:when I'm working alongside key people now, it's just
Speaker:about saying to them, it's okay if you need to sit and cuddle
Speaker:your baby. It's okay if you need to sit with them and read them a story.
Speaker:It's okay if they just want a snuggle or they want to, you
Speaker:know, spend a little bit of time with them while you're having their bottle. you
Speaker:know, spend a little bit more time changing their nappy so you can really
Speaker:slowly tickle their toes or, you know, really gent.
Speaker:Have a really purposeful experience.
Speaker:it's not about rushing it. It's not about, oh,
Speaker:gosh, well, I need to go and do this now. I need to. But no, sit
Speaker:with your baby. Enjoy them, love them, because they're only small for that
Speaker:tiny amount of time. And I think, like we touched on in
Speaker:our previous episode, about settling in. Once
Speaker:you've established that. That
Speaker:relationship, once you've established that connection, it's
Speaker:there forever. And that. That baby, who I, Who I had
Speaker:then, still comes to find me now when she's fallen over or hurt herself
Speaker:or she wants a cuddle because she's still got that, understanding
Speaker:that I'll always be that. That secure, safe space for her.
Speaker:So, yeah, I think it's just. It's magic to
Speaker:be able to be that key person to those babies.
Speaker:>> Clare: And I think it's magic to hear you talk more about somebody who's
Speaker:got control of a setting. So they've got
Speaker:control of the timing, they've got control of the pace, they've got
Speaker:control of the rotors, they've got control of the staffing
Speaker:levels. But to say, take time, take
Speaker:time and hold your baby, take time and love your baby, take time
Speaker:and talk to your baby. Because actually, it's not
Speaker:just that they're only babies for so long for, you know, such short
Speaker:periods of time, is it? It's actually, that's how those babies
Speaker:deserve to be cared for, and that's the
Speaker:rights of those children and those very youngest of babies.
Speaker:And I think when we're thinking about, you know, at the moment,
Speaker:we've got so many young children, you know, from the beginning of
Speaker:September, we had children start with us from nine
Speaker:months, who were then fully funded for their 30 hours. And so
Speaker:we, you know, we have seen an increase in children coming into
Speaker:nursery at a younger age again, and we've seen an increase
Speaker:in the number of hours that young children are spending in
Speaker:nurseries. And I think I have
Speaker:absolutely every support for parents going back into work.
Speaker:And I want us to have a society where parents,
Speaker:and particularly mothers, are able to continue their
Speaker:careers safe in the knowledge that their children are being
Speaker:cared for and well looked after and well educated.
Speaker:But it's beautiful to hear it. It's beautiful to hear
Speaker:that opportunity for slowing down
Speaker:and that slow pedagogy and that real recognition
Speaker:of what does quality care look like in a
Speaker:busy nursery environment for our babies when actually,
Speaker:you know, years ago, you know, you,
Speaker:you would have that conveyor out of care, you know, not at
Speaker:our nursery, thankfully, ever. But it was, you know, it
Speaker:was as a student, it was one of those things that, you know,
Speaker:depending on where you were on placement, you knew if you'd be in the nappy room all
Speaker:day long because that was where you spent that time. And I was
Speaker:a student. I didn't know those children. I didn't have any intimate
Speaker:relationship with those children. I didn't have the, you know,
Speaker:the ability to safeguard them from the perspective that they
Speaker:needed. But actually it was deemed okay because
Speaker:all of those decades ago, we weren't even inspected on our babies because
Speaker:they weren't even within the education system viewed as competent or
Speaker:capable learners that deserved even to be inspected against.
Speaker:And so I think it's just, it's really beautiful to hear you
Speaker:talk about the value of our
Speaker:youngest children and how actually, from an
Speaker:operational perspective, we need to stop and we need
Speaker:to slow down and we need to think about what it is we're asking of
Speaker:our staff who are looking, looking after
Speaker:and caring for our very youngest of children. and they
Speaker:absolutely deserve to sit and play and deserve to sit and
Speaker:love and deserve to sit and just be. I think that's
Speaker:beautiful. Lauren and Lucy, you're both here as
Speaker:parents as well as, educators. So, you know, you've
Speaker:both been really, supportive of the nursing
Speaker:and shared in the care and the education of your young babies.
Speaker:So how does that hear, you know, kind of feel from a parent's
Speaker:perspective, hearing your at all? Kind of.
Speaker:>> Lauren: I think it means more when
Speaker:other, I think I'm obviously going to have like this
Speaker:unconditional love for my babies, but it means
Speaker:more that somebody else would be willing
Speaker:to put the time, love, commitment into my
Speaker:babies when they're they
Speaker:don't. They don't have to, and they're choosing to. I think
Speaker:that's really, really, really important.
Speaker:All I want is for my babies to be cared for
Speaker:the way that is just as much care
Speaker:and commitment as I would put into them as
Speaker:somebody else.
Speaker:>> Clare: I think it is that bit, isn't it, that, you know, every
Speaker:time that we have a parent leave us, for the first time and leaving
Speaker:their child in our care for that whole first day,
Speaker:you know, the thoughts, you know, every thought must be going through
Speaker:their head about, you know, what their child's going to be doing,
Speaker:how safe are they going to be? Is someone going to nurture them? Is somebody going to love them
Speaker:the moment that they need it? And I think it's so hard,
Speaker:isn't it? Because we know that there have been some
Speaker:really tragic stories in the press recently
Speaker:where babies haven't received the care that they needed and where
Speaker:babies haven't been looked after
Speaker:in the ways in which they absolutely deserved. And I think
Speaker:our role as educators and as leaders is to
Speaker:always champion our most vulnerable children and to
Speaker:always question, you know, what is happening for those children.
Speaker:And that's why it was so lovely spending time with that other setting, because
Speaker:it's, you know, we won't take our eyes off our baby room because we know
Speaker:children grow up. It's the absolute space for
Speaker:our babies to be loved and to be nurtured and to be
Speaker:educated and to be given the richest of resources and
Speaker:the richest of opportunities. So that's why, you know, we're
Speaker:all wanting to be in that, because we absolutely believe in that. but then
Speaker:spending time with other settings and just watching the difference
Speaker:that some of that can have in terms of their
Speaker:room setups or the ways in which they're thinking about,
Speaker:you know, their babies when they're waking and being lifted out of their
Speaker:cots and taken back into their rooms and actually having
Speaker:the time within that routine, within that rhythm.
Speaker:So when we kind of stop thinking about things as a
Speaker:routine and start thinking about them as a rhythm, that time to be
Speaker:able to give them a snuggle, that time to be able to give them a warm flannel, to
Speaker:wake their face up, the time to be able to get them
Speaker:dressed calmly and beautifully before they
Speaker:return to their playroom. and I think it is about how
Speaker:we, you know, how we really change our perspectives
Speaker:and our views on the very youngest of
Speaker:children's care. And I think, you know, we feel really passionately and always
Speaker:have ateliers that our babies have a right.
Speaker:And I think it is about remembering their rights
Speaker:as a human, their rights. And you know, not just in terms of
Speaker:legislation, you know, under the UN Convention of the rights of a child or
Speaker:under, you know, the Early Years foundation stage, but actually their
Speaker:rights as a person within our Saturn and how we
Speaker:actually recognise that and what that looks like.
Speaker:>> Laura: And I think it's so
Speaker:important that we see them as,
Speaker:as a child that has, you know,
Speaker:thoughts, feelings, opinions, because so
Speaker:often I think, because, you know, babies don't talk yet or they're not able
Speaker:to, communicate in the way that, you know, is
Speaker:vocal. often I think there's this idea that a lot of
Speaker:things are done to babies or are done to children where actually
Speaker:we should be working with the child. And you know, like
Speaker:you said about waking them up slowly. Think about how you would feel if
Speaker:someone, you know, came in to get you from a nap and suddenly
Speaker:you're hooked out of a cot and you're, you know, you're popped somewhere
Speaker:else. How would you feel if that was you in that situation
Speaker:or if you were having your nappy changed for the third, time that day
Speaker:by somebody different? How does that feel for you as
Speaker:a child who actually, you probably feel quite vulnerable. You, you don't have
Speaker:the words yet to say, this is making me feel a bit worried
Speaker:or I'm not quite sure what's going on. So
Speaker:I always say to myself as well, just think
Speaker:about it through their, their eyes. How are they feeling? How are you
Speaker:making sure those cortisol levels are staying low, that, you know, their stress
Speaker:responses are triggered because, you know, they've just been.
Speaker:Switch from one environment to another or they're being taken by someone they
Speaker:don't know. Just really. Yeah. Really value them and
Speaker:respect them and, and see them as really
Speaker:capable, capable individuals.
Speaker:>> Clare: Absolutely. Who are very loved and value. Very valued
Speaker:in our setting. So when we think about that role of the
Speaker:key person and how is that key person really
Speaker:supporting those secure attachments? So Lucy, you've just,
Speaker:settled Archie with us. So you've got a key person, Eve, who's been with
Speaker:us forever really, because she's kind of grown up
Speaker:in the setting. But talk us through
Speaker:like that role that Eve has kind of
Speaker:facilitated between you and the nursery and Archie
Speaker:within that settling process.
Speaker:>> Lauren: Okay, yeah.
Speaker:>> Lucy: So I think Eve has just, within the
Speaker:settling process, just spent lots of time with Archie,
Speaker:getting to know Archie and getting to know me as well. And
Speaker:what my, my values and my
Speaker:beliefs. I Suppose. And what I hope for
Speaker:Archie to be and what he wants to enjoy within
Speaker:the nursery. So it's really important getting to know
Speaker:him and getting to know me as well. I think it's just
Speaker:spending that time together to develop that bond,
Speaker:playing, sitting, chatting and just
Speaker:being with him to develop that
Speaker:relationship. And so he knows
Speaker:that Eve is his person he can go to and
Speaker:he can trust her and if he's upset or anything, he
Speaker:knows where to go and. And then for him to be able
Speaker:to then enjoy his
Speaker:nursery day and his nursery experience and know that
Speaker:she's there if he needs her, but he can also go off
Speaker:and explore and he can enjoy his
Speaker:day.
Speaker:>> Clare: So when we think about that, the beautifulness that our key
Speaker:people bring, doesn't it? And you know, you look at the intimacy
Speaker:of the relationship and the love that's really held
Speaker:between a key person and their key child. You know, for our
Speaker:babies, that's so particularly apparent, isn't it? Because they are.
Speaker:They're our youngest, they're our smallest, they're our most vulnerable
Speaker:children within the nursery. So how do we
Speaker:kind of support that responsive
Speaker:interaction, I guess, for staff? Because, you know, we have had
Speaker:staff. I'm just thinking about, one particular
Speaker:amazing member of staff, but who had learned
Speaker:the ways in which her previous nursery had been. And so actually when
Speaker:I asked her about her baby, she kind of looked and she went, but babies don't really
Speaker:do much. And that's that bit about how do we
Speaker:change that mindset with our educators to
Speaker:really recognise and value our babies.
Speaker:Laura, do you think you could kind of talk us
Speaker:through how you do some of that in your setting? Because I know you were. You kind
Speaker:of. You had some baby quality sessions. You've really
Speaker:worked hard in terms of your team's knowledge and
Speaker:awareness of how babies grow and learn and the importance of that
Speaker:serve and return.
Speaker:>> Laura: So I think some of it is definitely having a really deep
Speaker:understanding of actually, brain development, and
Speaker:child development and understanding how
Speaker:babies, brains grow, how their development is
Speaker:really shaped by the environment that they're in, both
Speaker:the physical and the emotional. M. So one of
Speaker:the really important things that, as I spoke about
Speaker:before, is making sure the key person has the time with the
Speaker:child to really tune into their level, to sit with
Speaker:them, to be with them, to really pick up
Speaker:on those cues. I think when you were able to read the
Speaker:cues of a child, you can read if they're about to do something that
Speaker:they want you to laugh at or you can see if they're about to
Speaker:engage you in a game. And I think so often those things are
Speaker:missed because people are too busy, you know, working out what's
Speaker:going to happen there or doing that. But actually, when you sit and you play with
Speaker:your babies, you can see if they're, you know, if they might just
Speaker:roll something towards you really gently and it might be really
Speaker:subtle, but actually if you pick up on that and then you roll it back,
Speaker:the joy in the, in that baby's face as they actually feel
Speaker:that they've, they've started something, they've initiated a game and you're
Speaker:actually engaging with them is beautiful. So it's all
Speaker:about just being responsive, I think, in terms
Speaker:of, of being fully in the moment with that child
Speaker:and not worrying about when your next nappy is going
Speaker:to happen or who's sitting where for lunch. It's actually about just
Speaker:being sitting, experiencing
Speaker:what they're experiencing and seeing it through their eyes. and
Speaker:just, you know, the magic of tipping sand for us, sometimes
Speaker:it's very, you know, oh, wow, the sand's falling. But actually when you look at it
Speaker:through the eyes of a baby, the speed, the direction,
Speaker:the way it feels on your hands, the noise it makes as it lands on,
Speaker:on the sand underneath it, it's just magic. And you
Speaker:can really share that with, with the baby.
Speaker:When you are on their level and you're. You're just giving yourself
Speaker:time to be with them.
Speaker:>> Clare: I think for me it's about that awe and wonder, isn't it, that our
Speaker:babies. Ah. And then us
Speaker:continuing that awe and wonder back. And I, you
Speaker:know, years and years ago we had that birth to, the birth to
Speaker:Three Matters framework. And yeah, we talked about children being
Speaker:mover shakers and players and you're really
Speaker:breaking down, what did it really look like to
Speaker:be a baby in a baby room? And I just
Speaker:think we've kind of, we've kind of missed that a little
Speaker:bit now. I think we've kind of. Whilst we've got so many
Speaker:beautiful frameworks around us and we now have even more research
Speaker:coming through, it's that transition, isn't it, between
Speaker:our knowledge and our theory and our practise and actually
Speaker:our staff that are really working with those babies and that they
Speaker:can bring such joy and
Speaker:in return, the joy we can give those babies back.
Speaker:And I love it when you kind of, you hear the staff
Speaker:team and they kind of get through the September when all
Speaker:those new starters have settled and Then the
Speaker:laughter and really kicks in because the
Speaker:awe and the wonder of those babies is they've got to know
Speaker:them. So they've almost, you know, they've almost fallen in love
Speaker:with them. They've fallen in love with them professionally in terms of
Speaker:knowing their milestones, in terms of knowing their needs, in
Speaker:terms of reading their cues, in terms of knowing their wants.
Speaker:And then actually the laughter comes because actually
Speaker:their shoulders come down, they begin to relax because
Speaker:they, they know their babies and they know the way
Speaker:in which their babies need them and need them to
Speaker:interact. And I think there's nothing more magical than when,
Speaker:you know, I just remember last October when Harriet just
Speaker:couldn't wait to bring Artie to me to show me, you
Speaker:know, what he'd been able to learn to do. And it was just like waving
Speaker:goodbye and can, you know, can you practise waving goodbye? And
Speaker:her joy of, ah, something so,
Speaker:so simple but so meaningful and so
Speaker:powerful because Artie was then able to have his voice heard
Speaker:within that process of separation. And
Speaker:Harriet's this absolute passion
Speaker:to share this huge milestone for
Speaker:that baby in her care was just absolutely beautiful.
Speaker:So if you could think about one thing, I guess, one
Speaker:thing that you'd really wish more people understood
Speaker:when it came to working about working with our babies in our
Speaker:nursery settings, what would it be? What would it be for those
Speaker:staff that kind of look at us in interview and go,
Speaker:how did that work? Or. But they don't really. Babies can't
Speaker:talk back. What would it be? That one thing.
Speaker:>> Lauren: I visualise the slides of their brains.
Speaker:That, That might sound a bit strange about looking at the
Speaker:brain development, looking at the neurons, looking at the number of
Speaker:connections that form over those first
Speaker:two years, I think showing them that
Speaker:kind of like those slides and showing that growth,
Speaker:it's almost is evidence then. And then it's
Speaker:always, for me it's about the triangulation. So it's
Speaker:in the. All day, every day, linking it back to those,
Speaker:slides of a baby's brain, or linking it back to
Speaker:the strange situation study
Speaker:and saying, remember that's he's calling
Speaker:towards you. Because that's proximity
Speaker:seeking behaviour. Linking that all
Speaker:day, every day. And people probably raise their eyebrows and okay,
Speaker:Lauren. But it makes it all make sense.
Speaker:>> Clare: I think you're absolutely right. And I think it's that bit, isn't it, when we had that
Speaker:birth to three matters framework. And I remember, you know, then
Speaker:Anne, Langston and Leslie Abbott, who were just kind of absolute
Speaker:pioneers at the time in terms of their real belief of
Speaker:young babies and how they should be being cared for and were
Speaker:building on the work of, you know, Peter Alpha
Speaker:and Elena Goldschmied and Sonja Jackson and were kind of,
Speaker:you know, promoting the staff that worked in baby rooms to
Speaker:where I work with babies and I matter because it was
Speaker:a real focus around that change of mind and
Speaker:mindset. You know, we have an influence
Speaker:over the university courses those children are going to
Speaker:study because we've kept those windows of
Speaker:opportunities open through our interactions, through our
Speaker:conversations, through the opportunities that we've offered those children
Speaker:to participate in. It's just
Speaker:absolutely mind blowing. So, no, I'd agree with you, Lauren. The more,
Speaker:the more we can share the science, the more value
Speaker:I think our staff can add to it. And the building of the
Speaker:brain is huge within that, isn't it? Lucy, what about
Speaker:you? What would you think about in terms of, of people
Speaker:understanding more about working with babies?
Speaker:>> Lucy: I think it's to look at their communication.
Speaker:I think some people see babies as they're just
Speaker:crying but they're trying to tell you something. Are
Speaker:they uncomfortable? Are they hungry? do they need a
Speaker:nappy change? I think. And even the other cues of
Speaker:the gurgling or the chatting or the, the
Speaker:gestures they make, the pointing, I think
Speaker:that it's always that our babies are communicating
Speaker:with us and I think we need to see them as these amazing
Speaker:communicators that are trying to tell us something and they're
Speaker:also trying to share something as well with us.
Speaker:>> Clare: You're absolutely right. If we tune into those children and we tune
Speaker:into that communication, we recognise these children as
Speaker:skillful communicators in their own right. Then all of those
Speaker:interactions that we're holding with them immediately
Speaker:become richer, in themselves and then the opportunities that then
Speaker:lead on to that become richer. and I love it when I kind of do. We
Speaker:always call it the kind of lunchtime prowl, don't we?
Speaker:So at lunchtime, as part of our safer eating, we always have
Speaker:the leadership team on the floor over lunchtimes. and so we
Speaker:will literally just walk between each of the rooms and check in with the children
Speaker:and we're always passing each other in the corridors and between all of those
Speaker:spaces. But, you know, we'll go in and we'll have a really good chat with
Speaker:the children about what they've been doing that morning and how they've been, and
Speaker:you will have even the youngest non
Speaker:verbal babies really looking at you. You know,
Speaker:they're holding your Eye contact, they're holding your gaze. They're
Speaker:waiting for you to say good morning to them and ask them
Speaker:their day has been. And it's almost. If you kind of. You're working around
Speaker:your way around the table and you can see they, they have this little
Speaker:shuffle in their seat, don't they, where they're kind of like, hang on a minute, what about
Speaker:me? And I think it is, you know, really,
Speaker:really holding on to that. Our babies are so
Speaker:competent, whether it's in their communication and their skillful
Speaker:communicators, whether it's in their learning and their competent learners,
Speaker:whether it's within their relationships and their actual
Speaker:cheesing and they're making sense of the people that
Speaker:they're wanting to be surrounded in a manner pass by. It's
Speaker:really important. And Laura, what about you?
Speaker:>> Laura: You've just taken what I was gonna say in terms of just being
Speaker:so, so capable. And I think much more
Speaker:capable than people give them credit for. I think just sit in
Speaker:your baby room and just watch them, watch them play, watch them interact,
Speaker:watch how they explore the space and just.
Speaker:They amaze me every single day, our babies, with what they can achieve.
Speaker:They set themselves challenges and the way they achieve them and the way they
Speaker:find solutions to problems and the way that they, they just,
Speaker:they are these mini scientists that are roving around our environment. So
Speaker:yeah, I just think see them as so capable and
Speaker:allow them to be capable and don't put limits on them, just
Speaker:allow them to fly.
Speaker:>> Clare: M. And I think it's as well, isn't it? Is looking
Speaker:at where we balance our
Speaker:rhythm and our routines to enhance
Speaker:that opportunity for them to fly. So rather than
Speaker:stopping and interrupting that play, actually seeing those
Speaker:caregiving routines as an opportunity to build on even
Speaker:more learning. So actually the songs that can be
Speaker:sung around a lunch table, the, the
Speaker:rhymes around a tummy and on their toes as they're having their
Speaker:nappy changed, just that immediate eye to
Speaker:eye contact. As a baby when you're feeding them the bottle
Speaker:or chatting as they wake up and holding them
Speaker:warmly, and being responsive to them
Speaker:as they're kind of waking up calmly in your arms. I think it's so,
Speaker:so important that as leaders we take responsibility
Speaker:for our roles in making sure that the,
Speaker:the learning environments and the caregiving environments
Speaker:are supportive of the child. They're not there
Speaker:for the child in terms of. At 10:30, everybody's
Speaker:got to get their nappies done, but they're there for an
Speaker:opportunity to have a rich and Valid
Speaker:interaction that enables and empowers those
Speaker:babies. Ah. there's so much to think about when we're thinking
Speaker:about our babies. Lauren, I know we started, with
Speaker:your absolute passion and belief for our youngest of children.
Speaker:Is there anything else in particular that you really wanted to
Speaker:share with our listeners around that value of,
Speaker:that importance of that 1001 days?
Speaker:The awards that we've won in terms of our work with
Speaker:babies, the Peter Alpha, the Yanagoschmidt, everything that we're
Speaker:influenced.
Speaker:>> Lauren: By, I think it would to be. For me, I was
Speaker:thinking about raising the status of the early years educator.
Speaker:So shout from the rooftops about huge
Speaker:milestones that our educators have made and our
Speaker:babies have made. in terms of those awards, it is
Speaker:about showing that we are investing
Speaker:in our educators, we're investing in our resources, we're investing in our
Speaker:babies because we want to put our money
Speaker:where our mouth is and we want to show that we are actually
Speaker:putting those children first and especially these younger children.
Speaker:>> Clare: And I think that's so important, especially where we've got that change in
Speaker:landscape. Yeah. and we've got more and more of those younger children
Speaker:coming into our care earlier. Yeah. And, you know, we're at a point where
Speaker:we're having consultations around, you know, and I think it's brilliant
Speaker:for lots of different reasons, you know, consultations around
Speaker:increasing space size, consultations around ratios.
Speaker:It's really important consultations are taking place,
Speaker:but really questioning what is the benefit of those
Speaker:for the children and what does that really look like for our
Speaker:youngest children who actually, perhaps historically
Speaker:have had lower recognition of their needs,
Speaker:their agency, their competency? And how do we
Speaker:actually turn the tables on what could be a really exciting
Speaker:opportunity to embrace our staff, team and
Speaker:our babies and move forward successfully.
Speaker:So, yet again, another interesting
Speaker:conversation and debate around our youngest of children from Atelier
Speaker:Talks. So a huge thank you to Laura and to Lauren
Speaker:and Lucy for joining me today. We look forward to having Beth back
Speaker:with us next week. but for now, a really big thank you
Speaker:for us. Hold those babies at the centre of your practise.
Speaker:Believe in everything you're doing and if you'd like to find out more about our,
Speaker:baby training or some of our baby consultancy support
Speaker:work that we do, please don't hesitate to get in touch. But
Speaker:most importantly, love those babies. Enjoy
Speaker:them. Slow down.
Speaker:Thank you for joining us for Atelier Talks. If you
Speaker:enjoyed this episode, don't forget to subscribe, share and
Speaker:leave us a review. It really helps us to reach more educators,
Speaker:parents and early years professionals just like you.
Speaker:For more insights into our unique research led approach, or to
Speaker:find out more about our services at both the nursery or the
Speaker:consultancy and how we can help you in your early years
Speaker:practise, visit our website or follow us on social media.
Speaker:All the details you need to find us, are in the show notes.
Speaker:In the meantime, it's goodbye from us. Thank you for
Speaker:joining us. We look forward to seeing you next time for another episode
Speaker:of Atelier Talks.
Speaker:Thanks for listening.
