How To Grow Your Nursery Team into Leaders: Collaboration Over Hierarchy
“If somebody wants to step into leadership, they need to have opportunities to lead, and they need to know we’ll be there to catch them if they wobble.”
Clare Crowther, Director
This episode explores why collaboration, not hierarchy, builds sustainable teams in Early Years settings. Continuing on from where we left off in episode 12, we’re going even deeper into Early Years leadership, moving beyond titles and job roles and exploring what it really means to grow leadership from the ground up. From coaching your Early Years team day-to-day to developing new leaders in post, we’re sharing what works, what’s challenging, and how we support our staff to thrive.
We talk openly about succession planning, the emotional side of saying goodbye to talented team members, and how we create a culture where leadership is distributed, and everyone feels empowered to make a difference, no matter their role.
This is a must listen episode for anyone leading a setting, growing a team, or stepping into leadership themselves.
In this episode:
- How we develop future leaders through real responsibility and supported risk-taking
- Why succession planning starts with coaching, mentoring and high expectations
- What “stretching the elastic” means when developing staff
- The importance of distributive leadership and mini leadership roles across the team
- How we structure roles like planning champions, environment leads and room reps
- How to hold challenging conversations with professionalism and care
- How we build leadership into our supervisions, CPD, appraisals and team culture
- What “tribing” means at Atelier, and how it supports team belonging, loyalty and retention
- Real stories of apprentices who’ve grown into Atelier leaders
Find out more:
Website and newsletter: ateliernursery.co.uk
Instagram: @ateliernurseryltd
Consultancy enquiries: Contact us via our website
Together, we’ll unlock the potential for incredible growth and learning.
Atelier Talks is a Decibelle Creative original podcast
Produced by Decibelle Creative – decibellecreative.com / @decibelle_creative
Keywords: early years leadership, growing leaders in EYFS, early years succession planning, coaching nursery teams, CPD in early years, early years supervisions, nursery staff development, stretch the elastic, Reggio-inspired leadership, planning champions EYFS, key person culture, staff retention nursery, emotionally intelligent leadership, building team culture, Johari window early years, confronto, trust in early years teams
Transcript
>> Clare: Welcome to Atelier Talks, the Early Years
Speaker:Collective.
Speaker:>> Clare: This is the podcast brought to you.
Speaker:>> Clare: By the Atelier Nursery team, exploring the art and
Speaker:science of early years education. We're here to
Speaker:share knowledge and insights from our unique
Speaker:research led approach.
Speaker:>> Clare: So if you're passionate about early years.
Speaker:>> Clare: Education, you're in the right place. Let's find
Speaker:out what's in store for you on today's episode.
Speaker:>> Laura: Foreign.
Speaker:>> Clare: Welcome to Atelier Talks, where today I'm joined
Speaker:by the lovely Laura Beth and Lauren. Hello.
Speaker:>> Laura: Hello.
Speaker:>> Clare: In our last episode, we were talking a lot about
Speaker:leadership. So Laura was nominated for the Nursery
Speaker:World Manager of the Year award. So we know on
Speaker:this occasion you weren't successful in terms of
Speaker:your name being wet out on the night, but we just
Speaker:wanted to share that in our eyes, you are all
Speaker:ways, our Manager of the Year. We think you're
Speaker:fabulous. We know that your families think you're
Speaker:fabulous. and so just a huge, huge well done from
Speaker:us on being shortlisted on such a huge award and
Speaker:congratulations from everybody at Atelier on all
Speaker:of the winners and the other people that were
Speaker:shortlisted on the 9th. So what we were looking at
Speaker:then was lots of opportunity for us as leaders and
Speaker:managers within our role, to shape the philosophy
Speaker:of our settings, the vision of our settings. We
Speaker:talked a lot about being unwave in our practise,
Speaker:being unapologetically optimistic, but also those
Speaker:attributes as leaders and managers that we have to
Speaker:adopt every day to ensure that our teams
Speaker:understand our vision, they understand our
Speaker:expectations of how that vision is implemented,
Speaker:but also how we can adapt our practises to fulfil
Speaker:the needs of our staff team. So what we wanted to
Speaker:do today, was really explore that a little bit
Speaker:more on a practical level and a practical role. So
Speaker:Atelier, come on. We all spend all day, every day
Speaker:on the floor. So we're not a leadership team that
Speaker:sits in an office. We're not a leadership team
Speaker:that focuses on anything to do with the finances
Speaker:or anything to do with the legalities of running a
Speaker:business. So we're really, really privileged that
Speaker:we have a whole administration team and we have, a
Speaker:finance team and then we dip in and dip out to
Speaker:support some of the operational aspects of that.
Speaker:So whether that's the health and safety elements
Speaker:or whether that's the HR 11, but actually none of
Speaker:us have sole responsibility for any of what I call
Speaker:the kind of legalities of running the nursery. So
Speaker:that makes us really privileged because it enables
Speaker:us to be present and, to be visible with our teams
Speaker:every Single day. So, Beth, you love. I think for
Speaker:me, you've always said it, one of your favourite
Speaker:roles was managing your team. So what is it about
Speaker:being on the floor with the staff, with the
Speaker:children, with the families that is so magical at
Speaker:atelier?
Speaker:>> Beth: I think just seeing. Being able to witness and be
Speaker:part of other people's journeys, I think it's a
Speaker:really lovely position to be in. When you look at
Speaker:a member of staff or a child or a family as a
Speaker:whole, and you. You get their starting points and
Speaker:then you get their end point and you can just see
Speaker:the change, the progression, the development, the
Speaker:character of them, how.
Speaker:>> Clare: They can be there.
Speaker:>> Beth: it's really. It's a really lovely, magical thing.
Speaker:And I think we can sometimes get in these tiny,
Speaker:tiny little apprentices and then, when they are
Speaker:finally, like, three years down the line and you
Speaker:get to see them really thrive in what they're
Speaker:doing and love their job. It's. Yeah, it's just a
Speaker:really magical part of the process, really.
Speaker:>> Clare: I love it too. I love it when you see the impact
Speaker:and you can see the change and the difference that
Speaker:you make to those staff and how actually, whether
Speaker:it's how you're managing a supervision or how
Speaker:you're managing a feedback, whether actually
Speaker:you're just remembering that it's, I don't know, a
Speaker:sad. The anniversary of a sad time for that person
Speaker:or that actually something's going on for them at
Speaker:home and you just check in, or just that simple
Speaker:touch and a nudge and a love that makes them feel
Speaker:safe. And I think it's around. It's really
Speaker:growing, isn't it? It's growing that team,
Speaker:bringing that team together, holding that team and
Speaker:really seeing the difference they can then make to
Speaker:our community and to our children and our
Speaker:families. What about you guys? What do you think,
Speaker:Lauren? Lauren?
Speaker:>> Laura: One of the funniest things I think, when I took
Speaker:over the role as manager was we had this
Speaker:conversation how when you become manager, your
Speaker:staff team almost become your key children. And
Speaker:you do have that same sort of sense of protection,
Speaker:love, excitement, pride that you do when you had
Speaker:your group of key children. But now it's just a
Speaker:group of adults, but you still celebrate their
Speaker:successes, you still support them when they're
Speaker:sad, you are there to guide them, to help them
Speaker:develop and learn. And it was a real, sort of
Speaker:turning point when I realised that actually I was
Speaker:just now responsible for a slightly older group of
Speaker:people than children. But I think Beth's right
Speaker:that it's all about, you know, seeing their
Speaker:journey. And you talk about the impact. It does
Speaker:make me feel really, really proud when I see a
Speaker:member of the team achieve something that maybe
Speaker:they've been working towards or have a really
Speaker:difficult conversation with a parent that before,
Speaker:they might have really found tricky. And it's
Speaker:really lovely to celebrate in those successes with
Speaker:them and to celebrate their. Their journeys and
Speaker:also, like you say, to be there if they need that
Speaker:hug in the morning or they need a cup of tea and
Speaker:just knowing them inside out. So, you know, if
Speaker:they. They need something a little bit more that
Speaker:day. But, yeah, I love. I love my little group of
Speaker:key, key stars.
Speaker:>> Clare: I just think it's fabulous. I think the way in
Speaker:which you can spend, what, 40 hours a week with
Speaker:people and everybody's a bit quirky, aren't they?
Speaker:Atelier, you know, we don't. We don't tend to
Speaker:appoint staff that are all very similar. and so,
Speaker:you know, you can have. It was a brilliant
Speaker:conversation in the staff room this week. and, you
Speaker:know, there was a conversation about, it had been
Speaker:Lucy's birthday and so she'd been to the garden
Speaker:centre and she purchased some plants with her mum.
Speaker:And then honey was kind of sat on the sofa. She's
Speaker:going, what. What are you going to have for tea
Speaker:tonight? And then Erin's kind of coming in with
Speaker:the conversations that are happening within her
Speaker:home around, you know, the creativity and, her
Speaker:learning throughout the theatre work that she was
Speaker:doing. And everybody just has these little ins
Speaker:where they bring and they share and they develop
Speaker:and they, you know, we were talking long and hard
Speaker:about it because as a team, they're really
Speaker:accepting, they're really accepting of each other.
Speaker:And so sometimes within those staff room lunches,
Speaker:you know, you'll end up with a marmalade recipe or
Speaker:knowing that somebody's learning to salsa dance or
Speaker:a book recommendation. but you'll never, ever,
Speaker:ever have the same thing from the same person. And
Speaker:I think it's one of the things that I really
Speaker:treasure about Atelier is that acceptance of each
Speaker:other and the difference and the uniqueness that
Speaker:every staff member has, just as we do our
Speaker:children, and that they're able to be themselves
Speaker:100% with us.
Speaker:>> Laura: Yeah. And we do. We have a very diverse team here
Speaker:in Chippenham. We've got some, staff who are just
Speaker:beginning their journey with us or have just
Speaker:completed their apprenticeship. And then we have
Speaker:people who have been here for years or have worked
Speaker:in. In childcare for years, but Actually, the
Speaker:respect that they all hold each other and the
Speaker:trust and the love that's between them is just
Speaker:lovely to witness. I think that's what. What makes
Speaker:us so special is that our team is made up of so
Speaker:many different people who have got so many
Speaker:different experiences. They've got different
Speaker:skills, they've got different ways of thinking
Speaker:that then enables us to be such a diverse and I
Speaker:think, confident in what we do, because people
Speaker:have different ideas, different ways of looking at
Speaker:things that maybe I wouldn't have thought of or,
Speaker:you know, Beth might not have thought of. When
Speaker:suddenly Sara, our artist, is saying, well, we
Speaker:could do this, this and this. And it makes you
Speaker:really proud, I think, to have that diversity and
Speaker:that depth of thought and people to challenge you.
Speaker:>> Clare: It does come back to that saying, doesn't it, that
Speaker:we talked about in the last episode about, you
Speaker:know, surrounding yourselves with people who do
Speaker:think differently and actually knowing that when
Speaker:you are thinking differently, that it is safe to
Speaker:raise that and to. And to kind of challenge. and
Speaker:it's one of those things that I really learned as
Speaker:a leader was about conflict. And, you know, when
Speaker:you're thinking about leadership and you're
Speaker:thinking about management, you're always thinking
Speaker:about conflict resolution and how to kind of,
Speaker:What's the word I'm looking for? Kind of dissolve
Speaker:any of that conflict or kind of to get in first.
Speaker:And that's a huge part of our role. Of course it
Speaker:is. But actually, what I really like about our
Speaker:team is that they do have conflict, and it's a
Speaker:professional conflict. And when they will have a
Speaker:difference, they will raise that.
Speaker:>> Laura: Huh?
Speaker:>> Clare: And they won't kind of stop to consider it being
Speaker:wrong, but they'll stop to consider how to
Speaker:deliver. And I had a really lovely conversation in
Speaker:an appraisal last week, and it was, a member of
Speaker:staff, and I'd said something, and she went, I
Speaker:think I need to disagree with you. I see it like
Speaker:this. And it was a really lovely way that
Speaker:actually, no matter who our staff team members are
Speaker:or what role or responsibility they hold, that
Speaker:they can actually stop and challenge anybody's
Speaker:thinking. And I think that's where we need to use
Speaker:that term, conflict in a completely different way.
Speaker:And so those confrontos where we're kind of
Speaker:confronting each other's thinking is really,
Speaker:really important for us. particularly at this
Speaker:point in the year when we're determining those new
Speaker:commitments, we're settling those new children and
Speaker:families, we're establishing new room team
Speaker:members. And, so we know there's always a little
Speaker:bit of forming and storming and norming and
Speaker:performing, as Tuckman would say, and how we kind
Speaker:of bring each of those staff members alongside us
Speaker:and alongside the values and the visions of the
Speaker:nursery. But on a practical note, so much of that
Speaker:has to happen by leading from the floor, doesn't
Speaker:it? From the ground. So actually we're really
Speaker:visible and, we're sharing what our expectations
Speaker:are on a day to day basis by demonstrating it and,
Speaker:by role modelling it and by not being too proud to
Speaker:do it. You know, whether it's actually, you know,
Speaker:a tidy up time. I'm washing the paint pots and I
Speaker:hate having to do it those clay boards because you
Speaker:can never get the clay out your nails for the rest
Speaker:of the day, but actually making sure that no
Speaker:matter what our expectation of others is, that
Speaker:we're prepared to also put ourselves into that
Speaker:same position.
Speaker:>> Beth: And I think you do a really good job. Like the
Speaker:second anybody walks through the door, that way of
Speaker:working, that accepting of others is always
Speaker:present. Like people know the expectation. and I
Speaker:think that that's the only way that our team feel
Speaker:confident to do that is because they've been
Speaker:allowed to ask questions or to get a deeper
Speaker:understanding of why we do things and how we do
Speaker:things. And I think that relationship that we hold
Speaker:with the team means that, yeah, again they can
Speaker:question and, and delve deeper, get to know us a
Speaker:bit more and get to get to know how we work a bit
Speaker:more.
Speaker:>> Clare: I think so much of that is what we call the hows
Speaker:and the whys, isn't it? So we've spent a long
Speaker:time, Lauren, really trying to explore those hows
Speaker:and whys with the team. Because we don't want
Speaker:things just at a surface level, do we? We want our
Speaker:staff to really understand what our thinking is.
Speaker:And it's so, it's so interesting, isn't it,
Speaker:because whenever a new member of staff kind of
Speaker:joins the team, you can see their eyes and they're
Speaker:a little bit rabbit in the headlights and they're
Speaker:a little bit kind of trying to make sense of it
Speaker:all and talk to them about that fine line between
Speaker:chaos and cosmos. and I was having a conversation
Speaker:with a member of staff who was new to us, in
Speaker:August and so started settling some of their
Speaker:children in September. And I just said to them, I
Speaker:promise you, you've just got to trust me, there
Speaker:will be a switch when it actually feels right
Speaker:again. And it's that bit about when the rhythms
Speaker:start to come in together. Because when, you know,
Speaker:when you're settling what we had In Bath now, 30
Speaker:new children start this term, and three new key
Speaker:workers joining, or key people joining sor. those
Speaker:children this term as well. So there was some
Speaker:rhythm and some routine that really needed to
Speaker:settle. And I just kind of looked at him and I
Speaker:said, I promise that switch will come. And I did a
Speaker:supervision again yesterday. And he kind of went,
Speaker:you were right. Just in a week, this is what's
Speaker:happened and this is the progress my children have
Speaker:made. And now, you know, this particular child
Speaker:comes in and they're really happy to arrive and
Speaker:they ran into me today. And I think it's that bit,
Speaker:isn't it, where, you know, we've all been around
Speaker:the block a few times now, so we know what
Speaker:September's look like, we know what the hotspots
Speaker:in each of those terms will be, but it's taking
Speaker:our team with us and holding them at, certain
Speaker:points and certain times where we know it's going
Speaker:to be more challenging, but also giving them the
Speaker:freedom to make some of the mistakes. You know,
Speaker:sometimes I can look at a room move and I go,
Speaker:that'll never work. But I have to almost let that
Speaker:team try it and experience it for them to learn
Speaker:for themselves about the movement of children or
Speaker:the fluidity of a space and so that they can
Speaker:actually know and go forward in their own
Speaker:learning, in their own right.
Speaker:>> Lauren: Yeah, I, sometimes I even forget and I need
Speaker:reminding from somebody that, oh, do you remember
Speaker:this child? Remember how they got over this? And
Speaker:then I think to myself, no, no, it does work.
Speaker:>> Laura: This does work.
Speaker:>> Lauren: Like, just keep, stay on the same track because
Speaker:you do doubt yourself and every child is different
Speaker:and unique and sometimes you do need to tweak
Speaker:things to meet their needs. But ultimately
Speaker:everything that we do is rooted. I just remind
Speaker:myself it's all rooted in research, it's all
Speaker:rooted in best practise and it will work out in
Speaker:the end. And like you say, it might be a slightly
Speaker:different route, it might be a longer route, you
Speaker:might have to have two home visits rather than
Speaker:one. But, that child will ultimately settle if we
Speaker:keep on this, like, consistent, informed, best
Speaker:practise way of working. But yeah, I think what's
Speaker:nice is that we have parents that have had two,
Speaker:three, four children with us, so sometimes it can
Speaker:be the parent coming in and reassuring the
Speaker:educator who's new to atelier. This approach does
Speaker:work. Like, let's just keep going. This happened
Speaker:with my first one. And I know that the key person
Speaker:just kept going with these settling sessions and
Speaker:we got them in the end. So sometimes it can be a
Speaker:parent that's been with us for a while, supporting
Speaker:a new educator. Sometimes it can be like, I
Speaker:remember there's conversations I've had with, I'm
Speaker:thinking, for example, like, Lucy guiding Eve
Speaker:originally, it's okay, Eve, just stick with this.
Speaker:>> Laura: It will work.
Speaker:>> Lauren: So we've all got different pools of experience
Speaker:that we can pull upon to reassure each other that
Speaker:it will work out okay in the end. but, yeah,
Speaker:ultimately it.
Speaker:>> Laura: It was what we were talking about.
Speaker:>> Lauren: In the last episode about not just, throwing the
Speaker:baby out with the bathwater and, Yeah, to stick
Speaker:into our guns.
Speaker:>> Clare: It's lovely, though, isn't it? Because when you're
Speaker:thinking about, you know, our leadership role and
Speaker:when you, you know, you just talked there about
Speaker:Lucy and Eve. So Eve has now been with us three
Speaker:years. She's just become part of the leadership
Speaker:team in her own right. and she's worked incredibly
Speaker:hard to get where she is. and when she joined us,
Speaker:she joined us as a really apprehensive Covid
Speaker:trainee. and she. Actually, that must be more than
Speaker:three years now. Gosh, she must be nearly five.
Speaker:sorry, Ev. but within that process, you know, she
Speaker:came in as this really anxious Covid trainee and
Speaker:Lucy took her under a wing and showed her how to
Speaker:use the whiteboard to plan for her nappies, to
Speaker:plan for her bottle feeding, to make sure she knew
Speaker:what her rhythm and her routine was of her
Speaker:children, to make sure that that all fitted within
Speaker:her lunch breaks, but also that consideration for
Speaker:the rest of the room. And actually, what did the
Speaker:rest of those children, who might not be when her
Speaker:key family needed. And what was absolutely
Speaker:brilliant was she had worked under Lucy and
Speaker:alongside Lucy and Katherine, and then when she'd
Speaker:grown and she was ready to kind of spread her
Speaker:wings, and we popped her into the discovery room
Speaker:and she came home and she went, mum, she said,
Speaker:they don't even use their whiteboard. And there
Speaker:was just this whole kind of bit about how she had
Speaker:learned under Lucy and Katherine and their kind of
Speaker:leadership styles and their leadership strategies,
Speaker:and then had moved into a different space with
Speaker:different staff who had different ways of working.
Speaker:And now she's like this established leader in her
Speaker:own right. And what's brilliant is now in the
Speaker:discovery room, on the whiteboard this September
Speaker:are all of Callum's children and all of Daisy's
Speaker:children and all of Emily's children, so that
Speaker:they've all got that bigger kind of picture. And I
Speaker:think it's one of the things I really love and
Speaker:celebrate at Tilier is it doesn't matter if you
Speaker:use it on your whiteboard, it doesn't matter if
Speaker:you've got it in your notebooks, it doesn't matter
Speaker:if you've got your nappy baskets lined up, 1, 2,
Speaker:3, or actually if you move your nappies to the
Speaker:bathroom. But we try to encourage all of the staff
Speaker:to find their own ways of working as long as they
Speaker:come together to that end point. And it's kind of.
Speaker:Sometimes I can walk through the nursery and I'll
Speaker:hear a member of staff and they'll almost repeat
Speaker:one of my phrases and I have to kind of like turn
Speaker:to see them, to see who it is, because I can hear
Speaker:myself coming out of them in their words to a
Speaker:different member of staff. And I think for me it's
Speaker:brilliant because it really does show that that
Speaker:unwavering commitment, that absolute, central
Speaker:belief, central knowledge of how young children
Speaker:learn best and our roles in maintaining that high
Speaker:quality learning environment, never cutting the
Speaker:corners, you know, always ensuring that what we
Speaker:say we're going to do, we do and we do it to the
Speaker:best of our ability kind of comes through and
Speaker:comes out into them. I love this time of year when
Speaker:there's so much change and so much, development
Speaker:kind of really happening. So how do we do it then?
Speaker:How do we grow our team to almost. I don't want to
Speaker:say it but like, they're almost like our mini
Speaker:leaders, aren't they? They're kind of establishing
Speaker:their own rhythms within their own sense of
Speaker:responsibilities. And you can see them kind of
Speaker:really wanting to establish themselves within the
Speaker:nurseries.
Speaker:>> Laura: I think it definitely comes down to trust, to
Speaker:empowering. I'm gonna, I'm gonna talk about Mia.
Speaker:She won't mind me talking about her. But when Mia
Speaker:started with us, she was an apprentice and during
Speaker:her appren, we thought she was never going to get
Speaker:to the end of it. And we were like, come on Mia,
Speaker:you can do this. and I knew, and I know now that
Speaker:if, when I'm leading her and I'm managing her, I
Speaker:need to be, different how I would be with someone
Speaker:like Meg, who actually was Meg. I need to be black
Speaker:and white. She needs to know exactly how it is.
Speaker:But with Mia, I know that she needs me to be a bit
Speaker:more light hearted. She needs me to, challenge her
Speaker:really confidently. But Also, to praise her and to
Speaker:give her lots of love. So actually when she does
Speaker:something really well or I'm proud of her, just
Speaker:saying to her, mia, I loved what you did there. I
Speaker:thought that was beautiful. You can see her
Speaker:really, like, her shoulders rise. She gets really
Speaker:sort of like, yeah, I've done it. I've made
Speaker:someone proud. And I think that then gives her
Speaker:that sense of empowerment. She feels that she's
Speaker:doing the right thing. She then feels able to then
Speaker:share that with others and start to then kind of
Speaker:disseminate that down to other staff who might not
Speaker:have been here for as long. So I think you kind of
Speaker:have to, like, let them go a little bit and trust
Speaker:them that they are going to start to spread their
Speaker:wings. They might have a little. Few hiccups along
Speaker:the way, but if you give them the, the kind of
Speaker:empowerment, you celebrate them, you challenge
Speaker:them when you need to, I think they then start to
Speaker:become leaders, like you say, in their own right.
Speaker:And then when you say to them, oh, you've got
Speaker:someone new coming into your room, do you think
Speaker:you can just show them how we do this? They're
Speaker:like, yeah, okay, I can do that. And they start to
Speaker:take on that little bit of responsibility. And
Speaker:then eventually they get to the point where they
Speaker:are like a mini you. And they are starting to say
Speaker:things you would say, or they're behaving or they
Speaker:say, let me say to and me. Me, Laura, I've done
Speaker:this because when I was thinking, I think that's
Speaker:what you would do. And to hear stuff like that
Speaker:just makes me feel so proud of her that she's got
Speaker:such a sense of initiative and responsibility and
Speaker:knows kind of how, how we would all think and work
Speaker:together. So I think you have to let them go a
Speaker:little bit, but rein them in when they need it.
Speaker:But give them that, that, space to fly and to not
Speaker:feel like, threatened or, or anything by them kind
Speaker:of stepping up. I think it's about celebrating
Speaker:that and not being afraid of your new leaders that
Speaker:are coming through.
Speaker:>> Clare: I don't think you should be afraid, Laura, because
Speaker:on your day off last week, I walked in and Mia was
Speaker:sat at your desk. She picked up your phone span
Speaker:round in her chair and she went, don't you know,
Speaker:Clare, I'm going to be a manager one day. she's as
Speaker:cheeky as they come and as mischievous as they
Speaker:come. But I think it's also those leaders, you
Speaker:know, me. And, I think she's a brilliant example
Speaker:or as somebody that we've grown, you know, she
Speaker:wasn't an easy apprentice by any means. I know she
Speaker:won't mind me saying that I spent a lot of
Speaker:Saturday mornings on the phone to her making sure
Speaker:she was doing her homework. but I think it's also
Speaker:that bit about those leaders that, ah, are quietly
Speaker:growing in the background. And I'm thinking about,
Speaker:you know, we've got one really beautiful member of
Speaker:staff, Casey, who's in our team and she came to us
Speaker:as a level two student and she, we retained her
Speaker:because she had such a quality with her children
Speaker:and she has a gentle spirit and she has a gentle
Speaker:approach to scoop the children up that she's
Speaker:working alongside to notice the really tiny detail
Speaker:of what's going on for that child to really
Speaker:analyse the behaviour but without her even knowing
Speaker:she's doing it. So she will, she will offer love
Speaker:in abundance and challenge at, the appropriate
Speaker:measure. But she's just so gentle in how she does
Speaker:it. But, you know, we also know that, with all of
Speaker:our staff, there's a line where we then need to
Speaker:support and grow and develop the next step. And so
Speaker:actually, you know, when you're thinking about how
Speaker:we can grow, you know, the MIA's or the cases or
Speaker:the Eads or the Lucy's, you know, actually what
Speaker:we're looking for is actually what are their
Speaker:attributes but also knowing what those blind spots
Speaker:are for them. So what is the next step? That
Speaker:perhaps. I love that. Johari's window. the theory
Speaker:of Johari's window. So, you know, what's really
Speaker:known to ourselves and to others? What's known by
Speaker:ourselves but hidden to others. What is known by
Speaker:others but hidden to ourself. And then what are
Speaker:our full blind spots? Actually, when you think
Speaker:about all of those staff as leaders, we're really
Speaker:aware, aren't we, of perhaps what they're not
Speaker:aware of just yet. And actually, sometimes we need
Speaker:to peel back some of those layers and we need to
Speaker:peel back some of those behaviours and we need to
Speaker:really look at how we can best support them to
Speaker:grow, develop in their practise and the provision
Speaker:that they're offering. And I think sometimes those
Speaker:conversations can be tricky because we do love
Speaker:them and I think it's. I don't know if we're
Speaker:allowed to say that in a tribunal. I don't know,
Speaker:we probably get hauled over the cult. But when
Speaker:you're growing staff for, you know, some of our
Speaker:staff have been with us. 7, 8, 9, 10, years
Speaker:actually, you know, you're invested in them and so
Speaker:some of that is a real deep love, a real deep care
Speaker:for them. But I think it's also how you balance
Speaker:those roles as a professional to also have those
Speaker:difficult and those challenging conversations to
Speaker:say, oh, actually you know, I did notice this
Speaker:today and I was, I was concerned to see that. Or
Speaker:you know, I'm sure we've had that conversation
Speaker:before about ensuring that consistency and how do
Speaker:we ensure that those conversations happen so that
Speaker:they're fair, so that they're timely and so that
Speaker:they're purposeful to enable that person to grow.
Speaker:Because I'm a real believer in us as leaders,
Speaker:knowing our staff team so we can hold those high
Speaker:expectations for each of them, them but also
Speaker:leading alongside them. So there isn't that kind
Speaker:of carrot and whip, but actually holding them
Speaker:accountable to our expectations for themselves.
Speaker:>> Clare: I guess sometimes those difficult conversations
Speaker:have to happen. Have we got any kind of ideas or
Speaker:top tips to share or ways in which we manage
Speaker:holding those difficult conversations?
Speaker:>> Laura: I think it has to be like we talked about that,
Speaker:that, that conflict resolution, I think it has to
Speaker:be as conflict free as possible. So whilst you
Speaker:need to have that difficult conversation, whilst
Speaker:there might be a practise issue you're bringing up
Speaker:or you need to have a conversation about something
Speaker:that's gone wrong, I think it's about hearing
Speaker:them, hearing their voice, putting it into
Speaker:context. So actually have they made a mistake or
Speaker:has something happened that maybe they didn't
Speaker:actually know how to do it the right way in the
Speaker:first place? They'd never done that before. They
Speaker:needed a bit of support to do that, but then also
Speaker:really kind of giving them then the strategies and
Speaker:the solutions to how we mitigate it in future. So
Speaker:you're not just kind of saying, no, you did that
Speaker:wrong, don't do that again, it's okay, let's talk
Speaker:about it. What happened? How did you feel in that
Speaker:situation? Okay, this is not how we would usually
Speaker:do it. We're going to do it this way from now on
Speaker:and this is how we can take those steps to do
Speaker:that. Or this is the training we can put you on,
Speaker:or this is how we can support you to feel able to
Speaker:do that. So I think it's not just about rushing in
Speaker:kind of headfirst because sometimes you can,
Speaker:sometimes if something's happened or you're kind
Speaker:of stressed or you know, you're feeling a bit
Speaker:overwhelmed with the situation, you can just kind
Speaker:of go in and say no, that shouldn't have happened.
Speaker:Don't do that again. But actually, you just need
Speaker:to take a step back, look at the whole situation,
Speaker:put it in context, and then approach it, through,
Speaker:you know, gently. But also I think as a leadership
Speaker:team, I'm very good at that. If something's
Speaker:happened and I'm not sure how to manage it, or I
Speaker:might call Beth or Clare and say, actually this
Speaker:has happened. How should I go about this? And I
Speaker:learn so much from you all still, all the time.
Speaker:And there are times when I talk to Clare and she
Speaker:said, actually I probably would have done m that
Speaker:like this. And I go, right, okay, noted. And then
Speaker:next time I will approach a situation completely
Speaker:differently. Because actually, Claire's done this
Speaker:so many times that she knows the best way to do
Speaker:it. And I think it's about not being afraid to
Speaker:admit sometimes that you're wrong or to take
Speaker:criticism on board or to take that constructive
Speaker:feedback. Because ultimately that's what helps us
Speaker:grow as leaders and helps us to then lead others,
Speaker:and offer them suggestions and solutions we might
Speaker:not have thought of before.
Speaker:>> Clare: I think you're right. I think so much of it is
Speaker:around that mentoring and coaching and even that
Speaker:mentoring and coaching ourselves, isn't it?
Speaker:Because we're really fortunate to be able to, to
Speaker:have each other. and I remember when I was kind of
Speaker:managing when we had just one site and it was just
Speaker:Beth and I and we were managing together, ah, as
Speaker:manager and deputy. And so you're kind of, you're
Speaker:really connected because you're working so closely
Speaker:together, but also you are limited in the
Speaker:perception of others. And so actually by having
Speaker:somebody else's perception on things, it really
Speaker:helps you to stop and reflect on how you have
Speaker:approached the situation or is there an
Speaker:alternative way in which you can do it? And I
Speaker:think part of that open, transparent leadership
Speaker:whereby we are all in it together, but we don't
Speaker:all have to agree on how we get to that end point
Speaker:is really, really important because we're leading
Speaker:a team who are diverse. And so we need to have
Speaker:diverse perception of how we can then that. To get
Speaker:to that end point. And I don't think we should
Speaker:ever, you know, be ashamed as leaders to say that
Speaker:we don't have all of the answers. And we know we
Speaker:do need to actually take some time to reflect or
Speaker:take some time to research or take some time to
Speaker:read or actually pick up the phone to somebody
Speaker:else that might just be able to shed a different
Speaker:piece of light onto it. To say, okay, have you
Speaker:thought about it this way? and I think that's
Speaker:really, really important. And I think that's
Speaker:something that as a leadership team, we're really
Speaker:good at doing for our team team as well. And so
Speaker:actually when they come together for their team
Speaker:times or they come together for their, educators
Speaker:confrontes or their planning times, and they're
Speaker:looking at what they're seeing for their children
Speaker:and for their rooms, we're also teasing out the
Speaker:behaviours and the attributes that each of them
Speaker:hold individually within their room teams. Say,
Speaker:for. Sometimes that might be. I don't know, I'm
Speaker:just thinking about the studio team in Bath. You
Speaker:know, you've got, got, Harriet, who's incredibly
Speaker:creative, and a really able and determined
Speaker:educator and offers the most beautiful and
Speaker:fantastic opportunities to the children within
Speaker:that space. And then you've got Katherine, who's a
Speaker:really solid and level leader and she'll be
Speaker:jugging and spinning the plates of what's
Speaker:happening for the children. And whether that's the
Speaker:lunch breaks or the times, that somebody's coming
Speaker:to visit and somebody needs to have to be relieved
Speaker:to do a settling session. and then you've got the
Speaker:glorious Veloforte, who is a real steadier. Ah.
Speaker:And she just will love and nurture. Ah. And she
Speaker:leads from behind. She's one of those staff that
Speaker:just pushes things through and will make sure that
Speaker:it happens. And the dynamic and the diversity
Speaker:within that team is something really, really
Speaker:special. And I think when we're looking at how we
Speaker:establish our room teams and we're looking at the
Speaker:qualities and attributes in the staff that we're
Speaker:looking to appoint, that's one of the reasons I
Speaker:love the fact that they are all so different,
Speaker:because when you put them together, what they
Speaker:achieve is truly, truly fabulous. And I think, you
Speaker:know, when I look at our leadership team, I feel
Speaker:so, so privileged and I absolutely, honestly mean
Speaker:this, to have each and every single one of you
Speaker:standing alongside me. Because when we're looking
Speaker:at running our nurseries, we have had in the last,
Speaker:what decade, the biggest significant changes in
Speaker:the early years landscape. And I think it's
Speaker:really, really tough to keep going sometimes when,
Speaker:you know, we've got the recruitment issues, we've
Speaker:got the funding issues, we've got, everything that
Speaker:has been happening in terms of the number of
Speaker:political changes that we've had in terms of
Speaker:education ministers, but actually what we've
Speaker:always held onto is the need to provide the
Speaker:highest quality of care and education. And so
Speaker:Whether that's debating how we deliver our
Speaker:additional service charge information to parents,
Speaker:or whether it's, working out how many staff we can
Speaker:actually justify and send into Reggio in an autumn
Speaker:trip when we know we're going to be doing
Speaker:inspection, or how it's, you know, how we
Speaker:acknowledge that going and spending two days at
Speaker:River Cottage to learn about the provenance of
Speaker:food is really, really important because we want
Speaker:our children to have the best culinary experiences
Speaker:at nursery. and I think it's. How do we bring all
Speaker:of that together and still hold each other when
Speaker:the political landscape is ever changing and we
Speaker:never really know what's around the corner? So
Speaker:when we're thinking about, you know, the
Speaker:attributes and the skills that we're having, we
Speaker:know as leaders and managers, we have, some formal
Speaker:responsibilities. We know that under the early
Speaker:years foundation stage, we need to complete
Speaker:supervisions. We know we also need to complete
Speaker:that, appraiser schedule, the induction process.
Speaker:We also know that they're important not just
Speaker:because the EYFS tells us to do them, but actually
Speaker:they establish a really strong team culture and
Speaker:understanding of the values and the processes of
Speaker:the ways in which the setting work. But how do you
Speaker:balance that, those kind of formal approaches to
Speaker:our leadership with those informal leadership
Speaker:moments every day in the nursery?
Speaker:>> Laura: When it comes to supervisions, I think it really
Speaker:comes down to that being that time off the floor,
Speaker:away from everybody else, where we can be really
Speaker:honest, really open, have some challenging
Speaker:conversations, discuss children, but also discuss,
Speaker:practise, discuss, growth, continued professional
Speaker:development, and then I think on the floor,
Speaker:because we've already got that established bond
Speaker:that the staff member and I, and we both know what
Speaker:they're working towards, what their goals are,
Speaker:what I've sort of set them as their targets, you
Speaker:can be a little bit more informal in terms of have
Speaker:you done that yet? Or how are you feeling? Or when
Speaker:we spoke last week, we discussed this. Have you
Speaker:given it a go or have you tried to be a little bit
Speaker:more, vocally in your room m. Planning times, they
Speaker:then kind. You can kind of just like give them a
Speaker:little bit of a nudge in the right direction. and
Speaker:I think because we do have that, that segregated
Speaker:time where everybody really respects it, everybody
Speaker:knows that their supervision is a really important
Speaker:time for them. Everybody respects that allows
Speaker:everyone to have that time. And I think you then
Speaker:feel able to have those more difficult
Speaker:conversations off the floor, which then lead to
Speaker:some, some nicer conversations on the floor where
Speaker:you can Then follow it up or ask them how they're
Speaker:getting on with certain things you might have
Speaker:asked them to do. but I think is when it just
Speaker:boils back down to that trust, that respect, and
Speaker:everybody, everybody helping everybody else as
Speaker:well and being able to be collaborative in that
Speaker:team, I.
Speaker:>> Clare: Think that collaboration is really important. So
Speaker:when we're thinking about that vision that as
Speaker:leaders we set for the nursery and we set our
Speaker:commitments for each other and for the team and
Speaker:for the children that we want to do for the next
Speaker:year, we're also thinking, aren't we, about how we
Speaker:get everybody on the same page. And I know that
Speaker:was we what. One of kind of the things that Lauren
Speaker:talked about in the last episode was making sure
Speaker:we were on the same page. So for us at Atelier, we
Speaker:have, a huge amount of our budget is spent on
Speaker:professional development. So Beth, you're. One of
Speaker:the responsibilities you hold is for coordinating
Speaker:the professional development of the nurseries. Can
Speaker:you talk us through how that works in terms of the
Speaker:whole staff training days? Because I think that
Speaker:collaboration is so important to make sure that
Speaker:everybody is aware of what we're trying to
Speaker:achieve, but also having the same degree of
Speaker:training and support coming in behind them.
Speaker:>> Beth: yeah, I think for those professional days we start
Speaker:off by really looking at our team and working out
Speaker:their skill sets, their level of knowledge, their
Speaker:background, and then actually putting them into
Speaker:teams so that they can work together
Speaker:collaboratively. So that you've got, For example,
Speaker:our seniors are working together because actually
Speaker:they've been at Atelier for a longer time. They've
Speaker:got, really strong background understanding of
Speaker:what we're achieving, what we want for our
Speaker:children. compared to some of the new members of
Speaker:staff that have maybe only been with us a couple
Speaker:of months. So actually we're able to really cater
Speaker:to each individual needs by doing that. we really
Speaker:look to, be able to deliver different training
Speaker:opportunities that reach out to different learning
Speaker:styles. So actually for our professional
Speaker:development days we will invite a speaker in. So
Speaker:we're really, really fortunate that we're in the
Speaker:process of talking to Jules Page to come on in and
Speaker:do a talk around professional love and the
Speaker:importance of babies and toddlers within our early
Speaker:years settings. and so actually by, by introducing
Speaker:a new person and talk about their understanding
Speaker:and their background within that to then be able
Speaker:to link it to our Atelier ethos and values and
Speaker:what we want for our children. but it becoming
Speaker:collaborative. So it's not about Jules Page coming
Speaker:in and telling us this is what you need to do. But
Speaker:actually it's about her findings and her research
Speaker:and being able to then support that into our own
Speaker:process, practise as well and just continue to
Speaker:build on best practise and what we offer. and then
Speaker:right down to smaller things. So things like, we
Speaker:might, encourage a member of the team to listen to
Speaker:a podcast and send back reflections, because
Speaker:that's how they learn. Or we might go, okay, draw
Speaker:me something that I'm trying to think of the other
Speaker:things that have come back into us.
Speaker:>> Clare: So it was that podcast talk, wasn't it? It was so,
Speaker:so important. so we set the team a task of
Speaker:listening to two podcasts and then we gave them
Speaker:the options of, reflecting back in four different
Speaker:ways, of what the impact of that podcast was on
Speaker:their practise. And the creative responses that we
Speaker:had back were absolutely fantastic. And I think it
Speaker:is, isn't. It is really taking time to get to know
Speaker:those staff. So whether actually it was a poem
Speaker:that was written, whether it was a montage of
Speaker:image or whether it was, I was thinking about
Speaker:Callum and his. The railway line of the atelier
Speaker:terrain, and sometimes some of the, the lumps and
Speaker:the bumps and the bits that we have to go over
Speaker:while you're settling and you're within that
Speaker:induction period was really, really beautiful to
Speaker:say. So for us as leaders and managers, we know
Speaker:and we really value. Thank you, Beth. That CPD
Speaker:opportunity that we have. So for us it's, there's
Speaker:lots of different layers and isn't there, as you
Speaker:were saying, there's that opportunity to do
Speaker:something that's specific for the individual right
Speaker:the way through to those whole staff team days.
Speaker:But we also have that recognition that alongside
Speaker:cpd, we need to have those enrichment
Speaker:opportunities. So we have a Head of Happiness. so
Speaker:Katherine, in Bath and Casey and Amy in Chippenham
Speaker:take forward our Head of Happiness. And they're
Speaker:really looking at and responsible for that level
Speaker:of well being that of staff. So we know that we
Speaker:don't want to be tokenistic in terms of, you know,
Speaker:it just being a, ah, box of donuts on the table
Speaker:once a month, but actually really looking at what
Speaker:does that look like from staff wellbeing. and I
Speaker:think building on all of the discussions we've had
Speaker:about staff supervision and staff cpd, I think
Speaker:that enrichment and level of well being is really,
Speaker:really important and we know is really heavily
Speaker:threaded throughout the leadership, and management
Speaker:aspect of, of the inspection framework. So when M.
Speaker:We're thinking about our enrichment, or let's go
Speaker:with enrichment first, what impact do you see for
Speaker:your staff team in that way when you're thinking
Speaker:about some of the enrichment opportunities that
Speaker:you have offered within your team?
Speaker:>> Laura: I think it goes beyond just being a workplace,
Speaker:doesn't it? A job. It goes into that space where
Speaker:you feel cared for, you feel valued, you feel
Speaker:respected and it also just gives you that sense,
Speaker:sense of, a bit more satisfaction. I think you
Speaker:feel, really part of a really lovely community.
Speaker:And even with the little things we do, if it's
Speaker:just, you know, sometimes our heads of happiness
Speaker:might arrange for everyone to have a bunch of
Speaker:flowers or there might be, some. If it's winter,
Speaker:there might be some nice, hot chocolates to drink
Speaker:and it's just little things like that. Or you can
Speaker:pop upstairs on your lunch break and actually you
Speaker:just feel someone's thought about me or someone's
Speaker:actually, you know, given us this opportunity to
Speaker:have a nice little treat. And it just boosts your,
Speaker:Your, well being, I think. And it also comes back
Speaker:to that everybody works. We know that early years
Speaker:staff work so hard and our teams work so hard day
Speaker:in, day out to make it right for our children and
Speaker:for our families. And I think it's also important
Speaker:that we make it right for them and that they feel
Speaker:that they are being looked after, that those,
Speaker:sometimes those really hard days are, are worth
Speaker:the effort that they put in, and to show them that
Speaker:we, we appreciate them, we love them and we care
Speaker:for them. So I think it just gives them that sense
Speaker:of, of more job satisfaction and being valued.
Speaker:>> Clare: I think it's, it's so important, is it? And it is
Speaker:those. It's the layering, isn't it? So whether
Speaker:it's the Head of Happiness sorting out, I don't
Speaker:know, the soup kitchens or the hot chocolate bits.
Speaker:But it's all saying more than that, isn't it? As a
Speaker:leadership team, we can't just see that level of
Speaker:wellbeing as an add on. It has to be embedded in
Speaker:the culture that we offer. And so when we're
Speaker:thinking about enrichment at, a deeper level, you
Speaker:know, whether that was, you know, the willow
Speaker:weaving courses that we sent our resident artists
Speaker:on or whether actually it was sending staff to
Speaker:London to go to the theatre, because actually we
Speaker:really wanted to incorporate the theatre into part
Speaker:of our gallery schools. And actually that was an
Speaker:experience that they themselves hadn't
Speaker:experienced. So it was really Important for their
Speaker:own, kind of cultural capital, for want of a
Speaker:better term, to really experience that. But
Speaker:there's also that level of enrichment that comes
Speaker:together as a team, doesn't it? So we recently
Speaker:took all of our team to the Newton Somerset, and
Speaker:it is the most beautiful setting, but it, for us,
Speaker:it was around, taking time for the staff team to
Speaker:pause together. and so they were able to explore
Speaker:the. They were able to explore the theatre, they
Speaker:were able to explore the exhibits that were
Speaker:present there. And all we asked them to do was
Speaker:come back with five photographs that kind of
Speaker:documented their day. And when you actually look
Speaker:back at all of the images that were supplied, it
Speaker:was really beautiful to see the moments they'd
Speaker:taken to sit within, the wicker nests and just
Speaker:watch the rain, or the moments they had taken to
Speaker:walk through the squash, kind of archways, and to
Speaker:identify and to bring those ideas back into the
Speaker:allotments, or whether it was the ways in which
Speaker:they actually just sat and chatted, in the
Speaker:botanical garden. And it was, for me, it was
Speaker:really, really telling about how important it is
Speaker:to take time to be and to take time to pause the
Speaker:staff, because the nurseries are so busy, and they
Speaker:are busy from the moment children arrive at 8 o'
Speaker:clock until the moment they leave at 6 o'.
Speaker:>> Beth: Clock.
Speaker:>> Clare: And so unless, as leaders, we plan time for our
Speaker:statutory responsibilities, so for our
Speaker:supervisions, for our appraisals, for our peer
Speaker:observations. But it's also, how do we plan time
Speaker:as leaders for our teams to come together where
Speaker:there isn't an agenda? So, yes, we love the fact
Speaker:that Jules is coming to work with us in January,
Speaker:yet we love the fact that we have those whole
Speaker:staff training days where we see inspiration and
Speaker:empowerment come to life, but we also need to plan
Speaker:opportunities for our staff to have enrichment,
Speaker:and to just be as well, I think is really, really
Speaker:important. So within that, we think about what our
Speaker:staff team bring back. So we know that at every
Speaker:part in every term, there's always that ebb and
Speaker:the flow. we know as new babies are starting, as
Speaker:children move on to school, that ebb and flow can
Speaker:change. And so for us, it's also about that
Speaker:motivation. So, as leaders, how do we, how we
Speaker:doing that? How are we keeping our team motivated
Speaker:during those busy and those difficult times?
Speaker:>> Beth: I think we always talk about that unapologetically
Speaker:optimistic. And I think for me, I always use that
Speaker:to go forward. And I don't think, and I don't mean
Speaker:using that in a way that you're dismissive of when
Speaker:it is a tough time. Because I think that's really
Speaker:important to show to your team. I know September's
Speaker:really hard. We know it is. That's not going to
Speaker:ever change.
Speaker:>> Clare: I think that whole winter tough because it's when
Speaker:you're always getting poorly children that then
Speaker:need that one to one you're getting poorly staff,
Speaker:that you've got higher staff absence. Yes and no.
Speaker:I think that whole winter term is.
Speaker:>> Beth: Tricky and I think that I think the team knowing
Speaker:that, you recognise that and you recognise they're
Speaker:working hard and they're putting 110% effort in
Speaker:right now. Because actually the, yeah, the
Speaker:timings, the settling in sessions, all of those
Speaker:things are just new. so I think, yeah, being
Speaker:honest in those, those times as well as being
Speaker:optimistic, I always find being kind of just
Speaker:listening and being solution based is really
Speaker:important. So actually helping to find solutions,
Speaker:helping them to see and envision a different way
Speaker:of doing things is really important. and I think,
Speaker:yeah, being there to celebrate the wins. Like when
Speaker:you walk into a room and they've set it up
Speaker:Beautifully after having 10 conversations and the
Speaker:naming swings forwards and because we know as
Speaker:leaders we do repeat ourselves over and over and
Speaker:over and over again. But when they get it, that's
Speaker:the bit where you go, go.
Speaker:>> Laura: Yes.
Speaker:>> Beth: Amazing. This looks fantastic. Talk to me about
Speaker:your intent. Talk to me about the impact it had at
Speaker:the end of the day and when they can truly
Speaker:vocalise back to you what they've done and how
Speaker:they've done it. I just think celebrating in that
Speaker:moment is really important as well.
Speaker:>> Clare: And it's one that is, it's that next level, isn't
Speaker:it? When their thinking really changes and that
Speaker:metacognition comes into play and they're really
Speaker:thinking about their own thinking and their own
Speaker:learning, learning and reflecting on the
Speaker:difference that they have had and then you can
Speaker:kind of see that next step up for them. So when
Speaker:we're thinking, you know, for our teams that
Speaker:succession planning and how we kind of, you know,
Speaker:we want to grow and develop our team and for me as
Speaker:a leader, ah, I'm always really, really conscious
Speaker:that you invest hugely in people within this role.
Speaker:and we're always looking at the time that we spend
Speaker:on with them with the, the training, with the
Speaker:support, with the coaching. So it's not just, you
Speaker:know, yes, some of it's a financial investment,
Speaker:but so much of it is around a time and a physical
Speaker:investment. Between each other in that
Speaker:relationship. And then we kind of, we almost grow
Speaker:them to the point where it's either time for them
Speaker:to fly and they fly and they turn in, you know,
Speaker:they turn to a different role or they'll go on and
Speaker:do a further higher level qualification. So for
Speaker:men of our staff, that's that they'll go on to
Speaker:either lead within another setting because we have
Speaker:very limited opportunity in terms of the hierarchy
Speaker:of a process that there's only one manager role or
Speaker:there's only three deputy roles, or we'll lose
Speaker:them into teaching and they'll go on and they'll
Speaker:continue it in their teaching. so for me it's
Speaker:about, it's a really double edged sword, isn't it?
Speaker:Because you watch them and you know you've grown
Speaker:them and you know you've upskilled them and you
Speaker:know you've given them all they need and then all
Speaker:of a sudden you have to be really proud of them
Speaker:because they're they're leaving. And it's really,
Speaker:it's a really horrible feeling, isn't it? Because
Speaker:you know deep down it's the right thing. But it's
Speaker:how you kind of, how you then start back again and
Speaker:how there's that continual process within the
Speaker:staff team. So you, you know, you're looking to
Speaker:create roles or you're looking to develop or
Speaker:enhance, opportunities so that you can keep those
Speaker:really, really good stuff and the ones that you
Speaker:know are going to be with you and should be with
Speaker:you forever. But there's also those ones where
Speaker:you, you kind of know it's their time and you kind
Speaker:of know actually it is okay to let this one fly.
Speaker:I've done all I can do as a leader. I've let you
Speaker:know, I've let them experience all of those
Speaker:opportunities and now it's the right time for them
Speaker:to move on and, and try different parties. But it
Speaker:is, it's a really tricky one. But Laura, how do
Speaker:you, how do you feel about your team? Because you
Speaker:were talking about your team in the last episode
Speaker:as your kind of key family m grow into those kind
Speaker:of new roles. How do you support your staff to
Speaker:kind of, I guess, identify and nurture those
Speaker:future leaders?
Speaker:>> Laura: I think it's really like you say, it's really
Speaker:tricky because on one hand you want them to fly
Speaker:and you want them to be as amazing as they can be,
Speaker:but you also want to kind of clip their wings a
Speaker:bit and hold them back so you've Got them forever.
Speaker:But you have to, I think, put that to the side and
Speaker:just, just be able to let them fly and to give
Speaker:them as much as you can. Feed them with all of
Speaker:that, support. The coaching, the mentoring, the
Speaker:knowledge, the opportunities, the enrichment. So
Speaker:actually they do become the very best version of
Speaker:themselves. And I've got a few staff, on the team
Speaker:who actually, I know are going to be with us
Speaker:probably forever because they love what they do,
Speaker:they're really invested in who we are, they have
Speaker:really lovely working relationships and actually
Speaker:for them they feel really settled and happy where
Speaker:they are in their career. And for them it's just
Speaker:about deepening their knowledge, and continuing
Speaker:for them to do what they enjoy. But I know for
Speaker:others like Mia, she's already waiting until I've
Speaker:retired so she could take my chair and sit in my,
Speaker:sit in my seat and be the manager. But actually
Speaker:that's lovely because I know we've got some years
Speaker:where I can coach her, I can mentor her, she can
Speaker:have those experiences that when the time comes
Speaker:for her to take that next step up, she's got
Speaker:everything she needs, needs in her toolkit to be
Speaker:able to do that. and then there's other staff who,
Speaker:you know, might be having families or, are
Speaker:actually looking at different opportunities. And
Speaker:again, you just, you give them love and you grow
Speaker:them to the point where they then maybe move on or
Speaker:take it, take some time out. But you just, yeah,
Speaker:you just have to let them, let them do it. Even
Speaker:though sometimes it feels really painful and it
Speaker:can be really sad when you say goodbye. But you
Speaker:hold that, that deep down knowledge that you did
Speaker:the best you could by them and you gave them
Speaker:everything you could. And they're going to take
Speaker:that into wherever they go next. And you know, as
Speaker:a children, always at the centre, if that's going
Speaker:to help them to look and look after and nurture,
Speaker:more children. And I think that's, that's the
Speaker:biggest thing we can hope for, isn't it?
Speaker:>> Clare: Yeah, I think so. And I think it's, you know,
Speaker:going back to that bit about how we create some of
Speaker:those roles for those up and coming leaders and
Speaker:looking at those opportunities that they have for
Speaker:leadership in their own right. So when m. We're
Speaker:thinking about those leaders and I think you're
Speaker:absolutely, absolutely right, Law is, you know, as
Speaker:leaders, what is it that we're doing to promote
Speaker:and support their professional growth? So we've
Speaker:talked about the CPD opportunities, we've talked
Speaker:about the enrichment opportunities. But, Lauren,
Speaker:do you want to talk through for our listeners how
Speaker:we create some of those roles for leadership
Speaker:within that team? So perhaps thinking about the
Speaker:room champions and the planning champion roles
Speaker:that we kind of create so people can have a sense
Speaker:of participation and a sense of collaboration
Speaker:within the leadership and the decision makings
Speaker:that are happening within the navigation nursery.
Speaker:>> Lauren: Yes. So I think it's important to think that
Speaker:although some of us within the leadership team, I
Speaker:think we're made up of individuals that, are kind
Speaker:of looking at a certain career progression, but
Speaker:not everybody is looking to follow in our
Speaker:footsteps in exactly the same way. and I think
Speaker:it's about giving educators a taste of something a
Speaker:little bit different so they can try, try before
Speaker:they buy, try it out, see if it fits for them and
Speaker:then if it doesn't, you can kind of have that step
Speaker:back. So, for example, Clare, you were talking
Speaker:about environment champions. Those, educators are
Speaker:responsible for the learning environment within
Speaker:their space. So ultimately it's a collaborative,
Speaker:collaborative effort, but they are ultimately
Speaker:responsible for making sure that their environment
Speaker:is the best.
Speaker:>> Laura: That it can be.
Speaker:>> Lauren: That involves auditing, cleaning, maintaining
Speaker:their environment, maybe making suggestions for
Speaker:new things that they can order for their space.
Speaker:And it gives them a bit of a taste for what it
Speaker:might look like to have a responsibility for an
Speaker:environment. And ultimately somebody that takes on
Speaker:that role, tries it out and really loves it, might
Speaker:move on in the future, to have a role a bit like
Speaker:mine. So quality, practise, lead and looking at
Speaker:education and environment. But I think it's very
Speaker:interesting to see when we think about our, staff
Speaker:development, we look at it exactly the same way as
Speaker:we do child development. We stretch the elastic,
Speaker:we give them the opportunity, we scaffold them.
Speaker:Sometimes that elastic can be quite short and very
Speaker:thick. So we might give them, a role, for example,
Speaker:making sure the risk assessment's done every
Speaker:morning and making sure all that paperwork work is
Speaker:brought up to give them a taste of that
Speaker:environment, champion responsibility, somebody
Speaker:else like we were talking about Mia, she'll
Speaker:probably have a, maybe a longer stretch of elastic
Speaker:and she'll be giving a little bit more
Speaker:responsibility. But it has to be, it can't be one
Speaker:size fits all. It needs to be lots of different
Speaker:opportunities, see where the staff take it, and
Speaker:then work from there.
Speaker:>> Clare: I know we've got some staff who've stretched their
Speaker:elastic very fully now, and I just end up with
Speaker:huge hope orders arriving, environments are
Speaker:changed and new provocations are put into place.
Speaker:And actually, it's really in. It's just really
Speaker:delightful, I think, actually, to see how when
Speaker:staff are allowed to fly and they're given the
Speaker:freedom to fly, that actually they will really
Speaker:stretch their wings and they will take those
Speaker:opportunities and they'll actually create their
Speaker:own opportunities. They don't wait for us to say,
Speaker:this is something that we're looking for, or,
Speaker:would anybody like to participate in this? They're
Speaker:kind of knocking on the door and saying, oh,
Speaker:actually, I've just seamless courses coming up,
Speaker:or, by the way, can I go to Denmark? Because I'd
Speaker:really like to know about this, and really know
Speaker:that it's okay. And they're quite feisty, aren't
Speaker:they, in terms of what they're really looking to
Speaker:be doing? So we've also got, alongside those
Speaker:environment champions, our planning champions. So
Speaker:our planning champions take forward responsibility
Speaker:for coordinating the learning environments and
Speaker:making sure that the learning opportunities are
Speaker:documented and are shared and are visible to
Speaker:families and parents. But they also might extend
Speaker:as far as the connect days that we do, where the
Speaker:nursery is set up and parents are invited to come
Speaker:in to see that learning visibly in place, or even
Speaker:the exhibitions that happen within the nursery
Speaker:each year. So I think for us, it's about really
Speaker:holding our position, isn't it, as leaders and
Speaker:forming our tribe. So when we talk about tribe,
Speaker:Beth, talk us through, what do we really mean?
Speaker:What is that sense of belonging that we're trying
Speaker:to instil within our staff team and how do we
Speaker:nurture that?
Speaker:>> Beth: well, I think that's exactly what we mean by
Speaker:tribing. It's that every single person belongs.
Speaker:Actually, there is a place, there is love, there
Speaker:is respect, there is care for every single person
Speaker:that walks into the nursery. and actually by
Speaker:forming a tribe, getting everybody on the same
Speaker:page, everybody working towards the same
Speaker:commitments, it's actually what we want to
Speaker:achieve, actually happens. Actually, everybody
Speaker:becomes unwavering to what they're doing and why
Speaker:they're doing it, with the support of the
Speaker:leadership team around them, continuing to just
Speaker:offer guidance, offer support, nurture, those
Speaker:commitments and those beliefs of how we want to be
Speaker:and where we want to take it over the next year.
Speaker:>> Clare: So when you're talking about offering that
Speaker:guidance, Beth, you're talking about, the support
Speaker:that the leadership team can put around the staff
Speaker:team to ensure that they're able to fulfil their
Speaker:expectations. And I think that's a bit, isn't it,
Speaker:when we sit together at the beginning of the
Speaker:academic year and then we revisit that in January.
Speaker:So we know that first term our primary commitments
Speaker:are around ensuring our children are settled and
Speaker:our families feel welcome and connected, connected
Speaker:to the nursery. So if that's that we make a
Speaker:commitment that every child is home visited or we
Speaker:make a commitment that within six to eight weeks
Speaker:every parent will have had a one to one meeting.
Speaker:We make that commitment that we will have a
Speaker:connect a say that the learning that's going to be
Speaker:taking place across that term is really visible to
Speaker:the parents. What else do we do? Lauren and Laura,
Speaker:if you can help us on this one, for our listeners
Speaker:is how else do we really make those commitments
Speaker:really clear to the staff? What is it that we're
Speaker:committing to the staff team and what is it that
Speaker:we, we're asking them to commit back to us?
Speaker:>> Laura: So one of the ways that we would share the
Speaker:commitments with the staff team is we would have
Speaker:or we are going to have actually next week our
Speaker:staff meetings. So we have m monthly staff
Speaker:meetings and we'll sit with the team and we'll
Speaker:actually pull out kind of what they want. So
Speaker:they're involved in the commitment forming,
Speaker:they're able to share things that they want to
Speaker:commit to over the coming year, the things that
Speaker:they think are important to commit to. looking at
Speaker:it through the eyes of the children and the
Speaker:parents and the families and also the staff, what
Speaker:is important to them. And I think once you, you've
Speaker:created a set of commitments that are have
Speaker:listened to their voices, include their ideas,
Speaker:then you've got a set of commitments that work for
Speaker:everybody and everybody feels that they are fair,
Speaker:they are collaborative and when you are working
Speaker:towards a collaborative and fair vision, I don't
Speaker:think anyone then is not on board with that
Speaker:because everybody feels that they've got some
Speaker:equity and some part involved in that. So I think
Speaker:it's really, really important that they are
Speaker:involved in that process of forming those because
Speaker:then it's a belief that's held by everybody rather
Speaker:than it just being sort of a top down delivered
Speaker:expectation that oh, we believe this is the
Speaker:leadership team so therefore you're going to have
Speaker:to commit to this. Actually if we hear their
Speaker:voices and oftentimes they'll be able and aware
Speaker:enough to actually share a lot of what we already
Speaker:believe as the leadership team needs to be the
Speaker:commitments. But because they themselves have
Speaker:shared that then it doesn't become such a top down
Speaker:expert, it's more of a shared collaborative
Speaker:vision. That everybody feels part of.
Speaker:>> Clare: And sometimes those commitments can be really
Speaker:small, can't they? You know, I remember that I was
Speaker:really determined one year that I just wanted the
Speaker:commitments to be that every single book was on
Speaker:the bookshelf facing the right way, you know,
Speaker:because actually we read from left to right. Tax
Speaker:reads from top to bottom say the books were always
Speaker:the right way or that the pencils were all
Speaker:sharpened and the paper was all cut into the right
Speaker:sizes and shapes so that we had that richness of
Speaker:receivers and mark makers. and sometimes they can
Speaker:be huge. So whether, you know, we made the
Speaker:decision when we were forming the budget for this
Speaker:year that we'd actually have two separate
Speaker:independent study tools to register. So we've got
Speaker:a group going in November as well as a group going
Speaker:in the spring, as well as a group going to Denmark
Speaker:in May. And so it's actually, you know, sometimes
Speaker:they can be huge commitments and sometimes they
Speaker:can be the tiniest of commitments. But by having
Speaker:everybody understanding what it is that we're
Speaker:wanting to achieve for that year, they really buy
Speaker:into it. Do you think it gives the team them a
Speaker:greater sense of not just their ownership, but
Speaker:just. Do you think it gives them a greater sense
Speaker:of loyalty and retention?
Speaker:>> Beth: I really think so. I think the more the whole team
Speaker:are involved in conversations around what's
Speaker:happening, why it's happening, who, who is going
Speaker:on those enrichment things and why, I think they
Speaker:become proud for those people as well. And I think
Speaker:that's then set sense of. I want to achieve that
Speaker:for myself too. And I've. And maybe I've only been
Speaker:at atelier for six months and maybe that's my plan
Speaker:in six months time or something like that. But
Speaker:actually being part of that process and, and also
Speaker:knowing what's available to them, knowing that
Speaker:kind of most things are not off limits and going,
Speaker:you can just ask to go to Denmark and if we can do
Speaker:it, we'll try. because yeah, and other places I
Speaker:don't expect, expect you are able to have those
Speaker:opportunities.
Speaker:>> Clare: It's really interesting, isn't it, when you have
Speaker:staff teams who join us from other settings and
Speaker:they're like, oh my gosh, this never would have
Speaker:happened. And I remember doing a staff meeting
Speaker:with Jessica and Emily on their first weeks and
Speaker:they were just kind of like, we've never been to a
Speaker:staff meeting where it isn't just like everybody
Speaker:just sits and gets told off. And I was like why?
Speaker:What, how does that work? And she was like no,
Speaker:we've acted you know, we've never had this. and I
Speaker:think it is really different than when you have
Speaker:the staff that we kind of grow, who, who assume
Speaker:that's the same wherever they are. and it's really
Speaker:lovely, actually, when they then go and visit
Speaker:other settings and go, do you know what? They
Speaker:don't actually, they don't actually listen or they
Speaker:don't actually do this or they don't actually do
Speaker:that, and actually really seeing their
Speaker:understanding of what we're trying to achieve and,
Speaker:the part they play within it and the difference
Speaker:they then make when we're thinking about the
Speaker:impact of that. So we've talked today about the
Speaker:Early Years Foundation Stage, our statutory
Speaker:requirements as leaders and managers. Whether
Speaker:that's through our supervisions, whether that's
Speaker:through our staff enrichment, whether that's
Speaker:through the roles that we create and support and
Speaker:develop, the coaching we offer, the CPD
Speaker:opportunities that we offer. The landscape is
Speaker:forever changing, isn't it, in early years at the
Speaker:moment? So if you were, giving advice to somebody
Speaker:who, who was just stepping into their first
Speaker:leadership role in early years, what advice would
Speaker:you offer them? Laura?
Speaker:>> Laura: I think every day you have to be optimistic. You
Speaker:have to be unapologetically optimistic. You have
Speaker:to be that serene swan floating on the surface,
Speaker:even if underneath, you know that there's a lot
Speaker:going on that might need a little bit of, you
Speaker:know, juggling around. Because actually, what you
Speaker:portray and how you act really feeds into your
Speaker:staff team. And we talk about speed of the leader,
Speaker:speed of the team. We talk about, making sure
Speaker:that, you know, whatever's going on for you, your
Speaker:staff, feed off of your vibes and your energy. So
Speaker:if I'm, if I've got a sad face or I'm feeling
Speaker:stressed as they walk into the nursery in the
Speaker:morning, that's going to, then set them for the
Speaker:day. But if I'm there with a smile, I'm welcoming
Speaker:them, I'm asking them how they are. That then I
Speaker:think, gives them the, the opportunity to think,
Speaker:right, she's got control of this situation. She
Speaker:knows what's going on, the day is going to be
Speaker:fine. So I think you just have to be optimistic,
Speaker:solution focused and, and just be, be smiley, be,
Speaker:be joyful. Because actually what we do is, is
Speaker:joyful. And I think you just have to look for
Speaker:those small bits of joy all the time rather than
Speaker:focus on the things that might be a little bit, a
Speaker:little bit tricky, a little.
Speaker:>> Clare: Bit of M. Malaglutzy in there. Lauren. Nothing
Speaker:without joy.
Speaker:>> Laura: Absolutely.
Speaker:>> Clare: Rin, for you, what would your advice be for
Speaker:someone stepping into that first role of
Speaker:leadership?
Speaker:>> Lauren: My advice would be be authentic and make decisions
Speaker:that sit within your belief system and, the belief
Speaker:system of the setting that you're working in. and
Speaker:I think if you always revert back to the why
Speaker:you're doing things to inform the how you do it,
Speaker:you can't go wrong.
Speaker:>> Clare: Lovely, thank you. And finally, Danbas. How do we
Speaker:see leadership in early years evolving? We know
Speaker:that landscape has been changing over the last
Speaker:decade considerably, but over the next few years,
Speaker:what is it we think leaders need to be ready for?
Speaker:>> Beth: I think we need to really focus on resilience. I
Speaker:think we know that early years is a tough place,
Speaker:so if we can look after the leaders so that they
Speaker:can look after the team, then that I think is
Speaker:really, really important. I think motivation will
Speaker:be a really, really strong one. I think you have
Speaker:to motivate your team. You have to have that motiv
Speaker:motivation, that drive, that want to be in early
Speaker:years. I think we all have that passion. So keep
Speaker:it, keep it going. Yeah.
Speaker:>> Clare: Ah, I think it's that bit about holding each other
Speaker:up as well, isn't it? For so many years we've had
Speaker:a Private and Independence act, or private,
Speaker:voluntary and independent sector, I should say,
Speaker:who have been the absolute backbone for child
Speaker:care, within the uk. And what we're seeing is a
Speaker:political agenda and a political change whereby we
Speaker:are seeing more and more of our children and more
Speaker:and more of our pets parents, kind of offered a
Speaker:approach that perhaps might not be what it seems
Speaker:to be. and I think it's going to be really, really
Speaker:important as we see the school nurseries open and
Speaker:establish and we see the direction that the
Speaker:funding takes, to really hold onto our values and
Speaker:hold on to our principles and to hold each other
Speaker:up. Because actually the early years sector has
Speaker:come through a huge amount of change and there is
Speaker:no reason, reason why we cannot collectively hold
Speaker:on to our principles and remain focused and remain
Speaker:steady, to be able to offer the highest quality of
Speaker:care and education. And I think actually what we
Speaker:need to do is stand together and stand together to
Speaker:ensure that we remain strong. Because actually the
Speaker:early years sector, is incredibly valuable and to
Speaker:our children, to our families, we need to remain
Speaker:visible and we need to remain powerful and we need
Speaker:to remain present. So that would be my, sense for
Speaker:today, is actually to hold on to those values, to
Speaker:hold on to everything that you have worked for,
Speaker:and remain the strong and powerful leaders that
Speaker:you are. So thank you for joining us today. We
Speaker:look forward to hearing about your leadership. If
Speaker:there's anything that we can do to support you
Speaker:within your settings, please don't hesitate to get
Speaker:in touch via the consultancy and we look forward
Speaker:to meeting you again in the next episode.
Speaker:>> Clare: Thank you for joining us for Atelier Talks. If you
Speaker:enjoyed this episode, don't forget to subscribe,
Speaker:share and leave us a review. It really helps us to
Speaker:reach more educators, parents and early years
Speaker:professionals just like you you. For more insights
Speaker:into our unique research led approach or to find
Speaker:out more about our services at both the nursery.
Speaker:>> Clare: Or the consultancy and how we can.
Speaker:>> Clare: Help you in your early years practise, visit our
Speaker:website or follow us on social media. M All the
Speaker:details you need to find us are in the show notes.
Speaker:In the meantime, it's goodbye from us. Thank you
Speaker:for joining us. We look forward to seeing you next
Speaker:time for another episode of Atelier Talk. Thanks
Speaker:for listening.
